Mboma (18yrs) - 48.54 (withdrawn from 400 in Tokyo?

[Powell]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to want proof of the acceptability of a world junior record achieved by an athlete whose personal best a year ago was five seconds slower than these two record runs.

My main suspicion about African junior marks is usually related to the accuracy of their date of birth.

But in this case, wouldn't her progress be even more shocking if she was older than her official age?

[Vault-emort]

But in this case, wouldn't her progress be even more shocking if she was older than her official age?

It would be a near-unbelievable drop in such a short time, no matter what the age.

The five second improvement she just made on her 800m PB is considerably more believable, but nowhere near a world junior record.


It's hard to imagine someone with a 200m PB of only 25.05 (she appears to have run only one) can crack out a couple of low-49 second 400ms within a week. I guess we should all be expecting a 22.5 when she next runs a 200.

[18.99s]

But in this case, wouldn't her progress be even more shocking if she was older than her official age?

More shocking at 25, yes. But less shocking at 20 or 21.

[Atticus]

The track world has been expecting the unexpected from the massive talent lurking in Africa. This could be the tip of the iceberg in a continent that is just now starting to tap its potential.
Same with China, India and S. America.

[Wiederganger]

The track world has been expecting the unexpected from the massive talent lurking in Africa. This could be the tip of the iceberg in a continent that is just now starting to tap its potential.
Same with China, India and S. America.

We saw what China did with its massive talent at their 93 & 97 National Games.

I'm sure there are some super talents hidden away in the world. And maybe there are whole ethnic groups that have some natural advantage, as has been argued Kenyans & Ethiopians do in long distance running. (let us not forget all those recent Kenyan positive dope tests..)

At the moment though, there is an unfortunate prevalence of young women competing whos have been questioned in one way or another, and they have primarily come out of Africa & India: Semenya, Nyonsaba, Wambui, Mupopo, Seyni, Chand, (Santhi) Soundarajan, (Pinki) Pramanik and not forgetting the four unnamed women from 'developing countries' that ended up having gonadectomies to compete. So you cant blame people for questioning out-of-the-ordinary performances.

[mungo man]

When the majority of African and Asian and South American talent starts to blossom . . . look out.

Not in our lifetimes. This sport is non-existent in most areas. Real organization exists in very small pockets.

[18.99s]

We saw what China did with its massive talent at their 93 & 97 National Games.

With substantial credibility issues. What they did in 93 and 97 wasn't an example of a shining beacon of emerging athletic power.

[Powell]

At the moment though, there is an unfortunate prevalence of young women competing whos have been questioned in one way or another, and they have primarily come out of Africa & India: Semenya, Nyonsaba, Wambui, Mupopo, Seyni, Chand, (Santhi) Soundarajan, (Pinki) Pramanik and not forgetting the four unnamed women from 'developing countries' that ended up having gonadectomies to compete. So you cant blame people for questioning out-of-the-ordinary performances.

Generally speaking, I agree with the above. But there were a couple of athletes from a European country, who I sort of had my suspicions about and who disappeared from the scene very suddenly.

[1.609]

We saw what China did with its massive talent at their 93 & 97 National Games.

But China hasn't exactly shrunk or abandoned the sport, so what happened in the ensuing quarter century?

[Tuariki]

But China hasn't exactly shrunk or abandoned the sport, so what happened in the ensuing quarter century?

Increased and improved PED detection???

[1.609]

Increased and improved PED detection???

Who knows? I won't speculate - I just thought it a somewhat peculiar response to comments about continents with untapped potential getting ready to explode. The Chinese explosion was a short-lived display of fireworks.

[Wiederganger]

With substantial credibility issues. What they did in 93 and 97 wasn't an example of a shining beacon of emerging athletic power.

Aye. I was being totally sarcastic and an ss. But there were serious points there too. For years we were told to look out for the African nations, and the sleeping tiger. When eventually both came through in the late 80s and early 90's, they were all running crazy times....unfortunately it also coincided with the growth of EPO. CHN has now gone back to where it was pre Ma Junren, and KEN we have learned is as corrupt and riddled with doping as all the worst offenders.

As mungo man says, I do think the infrastructure is just not in place in other countries, and it aint happening any time soon. I'm sure we will see the odd talent such as Mboma, because she and Masilingi are undoubtedly talented, but unfortunately there's a shadow over them due to current issues in women's sport.

Powell I also think it's easy for us in the current climate to forget that extreme doping can massively affect an athlete's appearance, and maybe we are too quick to assume it's caused by one thing for European athletes, and another for African athletes. London 2017 finalist Mupopo is an 'interesting' case in that she was banned for 4 years for exogenous testosterone, yet her lawyers argued she had DSD. But this was not accepted and she was banned for 4 years.

[KevinR]

Who knows? I won't speculate - I just thought it a somewhat peculiar response to comments about continents with untapped potential getting ready to explode. The Chinese explosion was a short-lived display of fireworks.

Careful where you are going with this. You seem to be quite new to this board, so you may not be aware of the guidance that posters are not to speculate on PED use without any supporting evidence. This thread began with a discussion of surprising performances by two young ladies, but could shortly end up in the Dope Talk files.

[1.609]

Careful where you are going with this. You seem to be quite new to this board, so you may not be aware of the guidance that posters are not to speculate on PED use without any supporting evidence. This thread began with a discussion of surprising performances by two young ladies, but could shortly end up in the Dope Talk files.

I said "I won't speculate" (on increased and improved PED detection.) Did you think I said I would?

[KevinR]

I was not implying anything, other than discussions about Ma's Army and their blitzgrieg on world records in the decades ago, generally wander into PED territory. Fungus tea and such. Continuing to speculate on how they reached those limits, but have not since, has really no place else to go.