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  • #31
    Originally posted by miketandf View Post
    Lonewolf - any other marks to analyze... ?
    I dug up these to complete my theoretical decathlon. Not going to PR every event but some could be improved.

    PV, Age 17, (bamboo/sand) 10-0/3.05, Factor 1.0586, Age Grade 3.23, Open Std 6.14, Age Std 5.8, Age Perform 52.59 %
    I have never vaulted on metal or fiberglass.

    110HH, Age 53 (synthetic/HT) 15.8, Factor 0.9349, Age Grade 14.9, Open Std 12.9, Age Std 13.8, Age Perform 87.4 %

    The only full flight of hurdles I ever ran, entered on a whim at State Senior Games. At 5-9, not ideally built for high hurdles, it was more like running from hurdle to huddle, stuttering or stretching for a left leg lead. Did not hit a hurdle.

    Pretty sure I am out of eligibility but what does that do for me circa 1952.

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    • #32
      Here you go lonewolf... I was as accurate and strict as I would be with any athlete in presentation, including using updated factors for your age-53 110H conversion. If there was any possible gain in your 110H conversion, well, that was made up by any loss in your PV number from HS... so overall, these are conservative numbers for overall comparison.

      I'm sure you picked up on the guys I compared the young lonewold against, a) Jim Thorpe, who I didn't know until I looked up his numbers that he was thought to be born in Indian Territory, Oklahoma, b) Bob Mathias, because he was obviously the best decathlete during your college days, and c) Jeff Bennett, given his height, weight and where he was from.

      Two immediate observations looking at the completed table below: 1) your marks are exceptional, not "good/useful" as you mentioned, exceptional for its time! and 2) it is amazing how similar you are to Jeff Bennett's marks, except for PV as you mentioned.

      Of the three college guys today over 8000 this year, all with new PRs (Tilga, Owens, Garland), their PR score is about 97-98% of their sum of PRs. If we apply that approximate percentage to a young lonewolf's sum of PRs (7708), that would translate into a decathlon score of about 7500, in the same neighborhood as the great Bob Mathias (7580)! Think about that and enjoy it, seriously. He would have been scratching his head after Day 1, that's for sure.

      I'm not sure if this exercise was more fun for you, or me... but very impressive lonewolf (and also impressive that you have all your stats from all those years).

      LonewolfDecaStats.jpg

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      • #33
        You should work on that second day, too big a drop-off from day one . . .

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        • #34
          Originally posted by miketandf View Post
          Here you go, lonewolf... I was as accurate and strict as I would be with any athlete in presentation, including using updated factors for your age-53 110H conversion. If there was any possible gain in your 110H conversion, well, that was made up by any loss in your PV number from HS... so overall, these are conservative numbers for overall comparison.

          I'm sure you picked up on the guys I compared the young lonewolf against, a) Jim Thorpe, who I didn't know until I looked up his numbers that he was thought to be born in Indian Territory, Oklahoma, b) Bob Mathias, because he was obviously the best decathlete during your college days, and c) Jeff Bennett, given his height, weight and where he was from.

          Two immediate observations looking at the completed table below: 1) your marks are exceptional, not "good/useful" as you mentioned, exceptional for its time! and 2) it is amazing how similar you are to Jeff Bennett's marks, except for PV as you mentioned.

          Of the three college guys today over 8000 this year, all with new PRs (Tilga, Owens, Garland), their PR score is about 97-98% of their sum of PRs. If we apply that approximate percentage to a young lonewolf's sum of PRs (7708), that would translate into a decathlon score of about 7500, in the same neighborhood as the great Bob Mathias (7580)! Think about that and enjoy it, seriously. He would have been scratching his head after Day 1, that's for sure.

          I'm not sure if this exercise was more fun for you, or me... but very impressive lonewolf (and also impressive that you have all your stats from all those years).

          LonewolfDecaStats.jpg
          Thanks, miketandf. That was fun for me too.

          Fortunately, my mother and girlfriend (future wife) maintained clipping scrapbooks during my college years. Some marks were significant enough that I remember the exact times/distances and circumstances. Full disclosure, some throws are minimums rounded down from memory; probably not enough to make much difference.
          I barely knew about and never aspired to the decathlon. With five or six events every Saturday, I was fully occupied.

          Jim Thorpe, (Bright Path)a Sac and Fox Indian, is Oklahoma's favorite son. Born on the reservation in what is now Payne County, he went on to fame, if not fortune, at Carlise Indian school in Pennsylvania and in professional football. His family has tried for years to have his remains returned to Oklahoma, even though Mauchunk, Pennsylvania paid the family and changed the name of the town to Jim Thorpe for the right to build a monument there. I knew his marks were relatively modest by current standards but they won in 1912.

          I was in awe of Mathais as a contemporary but never realized I could challenge him in many events. And destroy him in the 1500m.

          Jeff beats me by 214 points with 480 in the PV. Seventy years too late but what height would I need to catch him?

          Thanks again for all your help.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
            I was in awe of Mathias as a contemporary but never realized I could challenge him in many events. And destroy him in the 1500m.

            Jeff beats me by 214 points with 480 in the PV. Seventy years too late but what height would I need to catch him?
            lonewolf - yes, a fun exercise... especially watching you go thru decades of stats...

            Re: catching Jeff... if you jumped 10-0 in the 1940's as a prep, with a bamboo pole into sand, I'm sure with 9.6 100y speed and a fancy fiberglass pole, you would be over 3.87m / 12-8 1/4 in no time, add 214 points to your score, and catch him.

            Re: Mathias... Let's compare apples to apples, your PRs vs. Mathias' PRs, both from the early-50's. Note: you could be leading the competition after 6 events... but Mathias, at 6-3/203, was a 'slightly' better thrower than you... and as bad hammy alluded to, he had a 'slightly' better Day 2... so big deal, he made up a few points there. Check out your comparison here:

            LonewolfVsMathiasPRs.jpg

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            • #36
              Thanks, guys, Yeah, throws and PV killed me on day 2. Although sprinters did not do weight training, after a lifetime of pressing 125# hay bales onto a flatbed, I could bench 260 so probably could have improved with incentive. Fun and a little melancholic to remember when I was young, agile and nothing hurt.

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              • #37
                Great work, miketandf! A lot of us appreciate it just as much as I am sure lonewolf does.

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                • #38
                  Before my masters career ended due to injuries, my rule of thumb was that performances declined about 1% a year. Based on the graphs and tables, it looks like that is not a bad estimate.

                  Keep in mind that masters competition is in 5-year age groups and a difference of 5% in an age group is quite a bit. For example, a 400m at 55.00 changes to 57.75.
                  Last edited by Halfmiler2; 05-26-2021, 06:41 PM.

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                  • #39
                    The effect of aging on my performances was fairly gradual. It was the severe injuries that had the real impact.

                    If something goes wrong in a 5K, it is an event. If something goes wrong in a long jump (or God help us, a PV), it is a game changer.

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                    • #40
                      Kevin R and Halfmiler2 both make valid observations. I don't know how to figure the rate of decline. After a meniscectomy at age 50, I competed at a respectable age group level until bone on bone finally dictated a titanium knee at age 77. After knee replacement, I could still run but could not really sprint.
                      I fear the loss of equilibrium is to be my downfall. Thinking back, I have become increasingly unsteady since a violent pre-pandemic diarrhea attack that left me extremely fatigued for weeks. Validating the "use it or lose it" cliche, my walk/jog is now more walk than jog and the jog part is kinda leaning forward and putting one foot in front of the other to keep from falling. My shoulder therapist has me doing balance exercises but I don't think it is helping.
                      I never gave it a thought before but have you tried standing motionless on one foot lately?

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                      • #41
                        I have no idea, but it seems that after I picked up judo training in my early 30s my balance improved a lot. Maybe it was the various proprioception rolling drills we did day in and day out, or maybe the proper training itself helped. I would definitely be against high impact practices at such an advanced age, but the above-mentioned rolling part is fun, low impact and should be completely controllable, perhaps that can help a bit? After all you are robust enough to run faster than some mid-age guys in our dojo.:-) Sorry for my gratuitous advice...

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by xw View Post
                          I have no idea, but it seems that after I picked up judo training in my early 30s my balance improved a lot. Maybe it was the various proprioception rolling drills we did day in and day out, or maybe the proper training itself helped. I would definitely be against high impact practices at such an advanced age, but the above-mentioned rolling part is fun, low impact and should be completely controllable, perhaps that can help a bit? After all you are robust enough to run faster than some mid-age guys in our dojo.:-) Sorry for my gratuitous advice...
                          Thanks, xw, all tips appreciated. I was simply not conscious of any balance problem until about a year ago when I noticed I was sometimes leaning on furniture and walls. Some suggest balance is related to hearing loss but that has been happening for years.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                            I never gave it a thought before but have you tried standing motionless on one foot lately?
                            To me, and many folks I've asked to try standing on one leg/foot, it seems to rely on your senses (maybe ears/hearing, but also sight). Try standing on one leg/foot... then try it with your eyes closed... I'll bet you'll notice a big difference in how long you can do it (lonewolf, be ready to grab onto something just in case).

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by miketandf View Post
                              To me, and many folks I've asked to try standing on one leg/foot, it seems to rely on your senses (maybe ears/hearing, but also sight). Try standing on one leg/foot... then try it with your eyes closed... I'll bet you'll notice a big difference in how long you can do it (lonewolf, be ready to grab onto something just in case).
                              Yep, sight is also definitely a factor along with hearing. We do closed eyes drills. I guess it is the complete package that is wearing out. Like the "Wonderful One Horse Shea, that lasted a hundred years to the day" before disintegrating. My therapist emphasizes muscle memory in maintaining balance. I have been using these muscles continually for a long time; how could they forget?

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                                My therapist emphasizes muscle memory in maintaining balance. I have been using these muscles continually for a long time; how could they forget?
                                but your sense of humor still registers at 100%...

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