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  • Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    That may be true but it's also irrelevant since athletes from any era benefit from the same medicine, nutrition and strength and conditioning programs as their peers. For example, Usain Bolt would have run a lot slower than 9.58 if he had born in 1913 and Jesse Owen's would have run a lot faster than 10.3 if he had been born in 1986.
    So the only real way to talk sports is stay totally away from All Time anything and Best Ever anything.

    Jesse Owens
    Eulace Peacock
    Eddie Tolan
    Ralph Metcalfe
    Frank Wykoff
    George Simpson

    ....best sprinters of the 30's.

    Hal Davis
    Barney Ewell
    Harrison Dilliard
    Mel Patton
    Mozelle Ellerbe

    .,,,,best sprinters of the 40's

    Do all this by decade, guess that would work.

    And when we get someone who was the best over decades like the WR Bob Hayes, yep, special. He has been the fastest NFLer since 1965.
    Last edited by Alcyallen; 01-05-2022, 11:47 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
      While I agree, the majority of TV/radio sports talking heads also are afflicted. I just saw the ALL Madden biopic on Fox and there was a guy who actually did know what he was talking about. Tony Romo is the best now and will often call plays just before they happen, and then explain why it did or did not work.

      What we're seeing in this thread is somebody who has convinced himself that his opinion outweighs everyone else's. While he obviously does know a great deal of data and empirical evidence, he assumes that makes him better prepared than others to make judgments, while he is clearly unaware that they are just opinions, not 'rational facts'.
      I have always been immensely impressed with Colinsworth who I think is similarly skilled but, yes, Romo is so, so good. And although I do like Colinsworth's style, I must admit that Romo is such infectious fun.
      You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!

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      • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
        While I agree, the majority of TV/radio sports talking heads also are afflicted. I just saw the ALL Madden biopic on Fox and there was a guy who actually did know what he was talking about. Tony Romo is the best now and will often call plays just before they happen, and then explain why it did or did not work.

        What we're seeing in this thread is somebody who has convinced himself that his opinion outweighs everyone else's. While he obviously does know a great deal of datd empirical evidence, he assumes that makes him better prepared than others to make judgments, while he is clearly unaware that they are just opinions, not 'rational facts'.
        So I should be doing what? Who here doesn't think they are right?

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        • Originally posted by Alcyallen View Post
          So I should be doing what? Who here doesn't think they are right?
          A, Stop insisting you are.
          B. Stop insulting others who have divergent opinions.
          C. Stop arguing when it's clear nobody's mind will be changed.
          D. Qualify your remarks.
          E. Apologize when B. (above) gets away from you.
          F. Let it go once you've made your position clear.

          We all fall afoul of this nuggets of advice, now and again, but it's very cathartic to admit your opinion is no better than someone else's. You no longer bear the burden of being 'right', and can just enjoy the banter.

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          • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
            A, Stop insisting you are.
            B. Stop insulting others who have divergent opinions.
            C. Stop arguing when it's clear nobody's mind will be changed.
            D. Qualify your remarks.
            E. Apologize when B. (above) gets away from you.
            F. Let it go once you've made your position clear.

            We all fall afoul of this nuggets of advice, now and again, but it's very cathartic to admit your opinion is no better than someone else's. You no longer bear the burden of being 'right', and can just enjoy the banter.
            So we all possess the exact same level of knowledge, ok so talk to me about the top10 HBCU running backs in pro football history, go ahead....

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            • Originally posted by Alcyallen View Post

              So I should be doing what? Who here doesn't think they are right?
              When you contradict yourself it's obvious that you're wrong because you can't take both sides of an issue be right on both of them.

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              • Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post

                When you contradict yourself it's obvious that you're wrong because you can't take both sides of an issue be right on both of them.
                What are you talking about? What have I been wrong about?

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                • I do not understand the compulsion to debate opinions endlessly, especially when not directly affected.
                  Opinions may be based on interpretation of the relevance/significance of facts but they are still just opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Fortunately, they are free and changeable and don't matter in the grand plan of the universe........ unless you are on a subjective based selection committee.
                  Last edited by lonewolf; 01-06-2022, 03:51 AM.

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                  • enough pissing match, please

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                    • Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                      I do not understand the compulsion to debate opinions endlessly, especially when not directly affected.
                      Opinions may be based on interpretation of the relevance/significance of facts but they are still just opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Fortunately, they are free and changeable and don't matter in the grand plan of the universe........ unless you are on a subjective based selection committee.
                      Debate, especially about sports, can be fun if! Like Jazzy said, all parties are acting in good-faith. For example, did you know:

                      1) During the entire decade of the 70s (The bulk of Bradshaw's career) there were only 5...five!...400 yard passing games. The entire decade! That can now happen in one NFL week.

                      2) During Bradshaw's entire career (1970-1983) there were 6...six!...4000 yard passing seasons. There were 12 such seasons last year alone.

                      3) During Bradhaw's entire career there were 7...seven!...30+ TD seasons. There were 10 such seasons last year alone.

                      4) During Bradshaw's entire career there were 8...eight! players with seasons of 64%+ completion %. Last year the entire league averaged 65.2%.

                      5) The 14 years of Bradshaw's career was the lowest scoring 14 year stretch post-WWII. Guess what? The last 14 years are the highest scoring 14 year stretch in NFL history, by far. Ben's era.

                      So in the worst offensive era in history, Bradshaw was nearly as efficient in the Playoffs as Ben was during the best offensive era in history.

                      Our debate...partner...ignores all of this. It's a silly little debate, but it's infuriating when one of the parties is a bad-actor and ignoring these realities.

                      Adjusted for era, their regular season stats are actually pretty similar.

                      It's in the Playoffs where Bradshaw destroys Ben, and pretty much everyone else, in some ways despite era but especially (relative to era!!!!!!!!).


                      You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!

                      Comment


                      • I couldn't have said it better myself scott. Over the last 60 years there have over a dozen developments in football and every one of them benfitted the offense.
                        Last edited by jazzcyclist; 01-06-2022, 03:42 PM.

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                        • This thread reminds me of something I was told as a surgical intern by my chief resident: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It only frustrates you and it annoys the hell out of the pig."

                          One of the two best pieces of advice I got from him, along with "Eat when you can, sleep when you can, and don't f--k with the pancreas."

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                          • Originally posted by scottmitchell74 View Post

                            Debate, especially about sports, can be fun if! Like Jazzy said, all parties are acting in good-faith. For example, did you know:

                            1) During the entire decade of the 70s (The bulk of Bradshaw's career) there were only 5...five!...400 yard passing games. The entire decade! That can now happen in one NFL week.

                            2) During Bradshaw's entire career (1970-1983) there were 6...six!...4000 yard passing seasons. There were 12 such seasons last year alone.

                            3) During Bradhaw's entire career there were 7...seven!...30+ TD seasons. There were 10 such seasons last year alone.

                            4) During Bradshaw's entire career there were 8...eight! players with seasons of 64%+ completion %. Last year the entire league averaged 65.2%.

                            5) The 14 years of Bradshaw's career was the lowest scoring 14 year stretch post-WWII. Guess what? The last 14 years are the highest scoring 14 year stretch in NFL history, by far. Ben's era.

                            So in the worst offensive era in history, Bradshaw was nearly as efficient in the Playoffs as Ben was during the best offensive era in history.

                            Our debate...partner...ignores all of this. It's a silly little debate, but it's infuriating when one of the parties is a bad-actor and ignoring these realities.

                            Adjusted for era, their regular season stats are actually pretty similar.

                            It's in the Playoffs where Bradshaw destroys Ben, and pretty much everyone else, in some ways despite era but especially (relative to era!!!!!!!!).

                            I saw Bradshaw play many many times, have seen all his Superbowls knew about him as a javelin thrower in high school. And I like the guy, how could anyone not like Terry? As a QB he played behind a great center in Mke Webster, he handed off to a great RB in Franco Harris, he had a speed burner in John Stallworth and a great possession receiver in the acrobatic Lynn Swan, now add the do it all Rocky Bliear, only Bliear not a Hall of Famer of that gang. Terry was surrounded by greatness. That defense was historically great, The Steel Curtain with Ernie Holmes, Mad Dog White, LC Greenwood, Mean Joe Greene, behind those studs two Hall of Fame LB's in Jack Lambert and Jack Ham, now add Donnie Shell, Mel Blount on the back in, don't forget Mike Wagner, This D had five future Hall of Famers. All in all Terry played with nine future Hall of Famers, what a lucky guy, he was blessed.

                            Terry had a major problem with INT's. and making bad decisions, he threw high he threw low, he missed wide open receiver constantly, Why do we call Swann acrobatic, he had to be to catch Bradshaw passes. Terry threw.....73,,,,,INT;s his first 4 season, hell his rookie season 6 TD and 24, yep 24 INT;s. The guy had 5 seasons with more INT than TD, ending up with 212 TD 210 INT, that is terrible in any era. His comp % less than a 52% his passer rating was terrible at 70, in his 14 season career he only played in three pro bowls. Numbers wise he totally sucked..

                            Of all the Hall of Fame QB's I saw play only Joe Namath was a worst QB. Now that is just an opinion from a fan who first started watching NFL football around 1958, a guy who had a notebook at 9 years old writing things down, my first football hero WIllie Galimore a Bears RB out of Florida A&M, his rookie card a prized possession of mine, He help recruit Bob Hayes to the school.

                            I have seen them all since Johnny U and in my opinion Big Ben was by far a better QB than Terry Bradshaw,, I saw a guy in Bradshaw who was all over the place with his passes. In Big Ben he didn;t miss wide open receivers and didn't throw a TON of pics. And right now he is way up there with the all time stats, Twice as many pro bowls as Bradshaw.

                            I can only go with what I saw, I didn't see a great QB when watching Bradshaw play, for every good pass he threw a bad ball was just around the corner. Way too many INT's , era not a factor. Big Ben was a far superior QB to Bradsaw everything about his game was better, he didn't those a TON of pics, he didn't make bad decisions and he wasn't surrounded by nine future Hall of Famers,

                            I have been to Steeler forums, trust me nobody is buying a guy with a less than 52 comp% less than 71 passer rating and a TON of INT's being their best QB, yep, the consenses is Big Ben is da man and that is also my opinion. And we all have one.

                            I know.....but Terry won 4 Superbowls. well Eli won two anyone think he is better than Marino who never won a Superbowl ,yep, me either. Anyone think Superbowl champ Trent Dilfer was better than Tarkenton, Fouts, Kelly, Moon, Rivers who combined won....0...?

                            Last edited by Alcyallen; 01-06-2022, 04:39 PM.

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                            • Someone's not a fan:

                              Thank you, Ben Roethlisberger... for being a real jackass

                              . . . because Ben Roethlisberger sucks. God, he sucks. Just THINKING about him sucks. I wish he’d never been born.

                              But born he was. Therefore we must, as a society, grapple with this man’s enduring legacy of being a tactless, selfish, belligerent dickhead. He was suspended by the NFL after being accused of rape in 2010. The same year, another woman named Andrea McNulty came forward to Sports Illustrated and accused Roethlisberger of raping her after he called her up to his Lake Tahoe hotel room to have her fix his television. McNulty claimed that when she reported the assault to her boss, the boss threatened to fire her. (Roethlisberger wasn't charged in the 2010 case, and settled a lawsuit with McNulty in 2011.) The SI expose separately reported that Roethlisberger frequently harassed service workers, dined and dashed on multiple occasions and displayed poor sportsmanship even during pick-up basketball games. He also crashed his motorcycle in 2006 while not wearing a helmet, swore he’d always wear a helmet afterward, didn’t, and then flipped off journalists who caught him riding free and easy.



                              https://www.sfgate.com/sports-column...r-16748606.php

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                              • Now we await Alcyallen's rebuttal

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