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Mary Cain files lawsuit against Nike & Salazar

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  • #31
    Not gonna weigh in on her weight but no discussion of Mary Cain would be complete without recalling her succinct response to a persistent post-race interviewer seeking her thoughts/strategy in a stirring come-from-behind victory, "I just ran like an animal.", the most honest/informative answer in the history of post-race interviews.
    Last edited by lonewolf; 10-13-2021, 11:26 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Atticus View Post
      Should we be holding the women gymnasts accountable for the abuse they received from Dr. Nassar? Should we scold them for not 'walking away'?' They trusted him and he abused their trust, just as Salzar did.
      Blaming Salazar for the woes of every other abuser in history that people can come up with. And for the poster who says he is my beloved, get real. I have no particular love for Salazar.

      But I have been in a situation as an athlete where I could claim abuse. I used to train as a teenager with a group that had Olympic medalists and a well known Olympic coach many years ago. That coach ended up being busted for "abuses" and sued. I was ridiculed by him in front of the group on several occasions and was asked to continue to run and compete in spite of a serious injury that ultimately took years to heal and ended my track days. Did I blame him? Do I still hold a grudge? No, I went up to him while he was in the middle of meeting with all of his beloved athletes and more or less told him to F off and that I was done with him.

      I doubt there are many athletes out there today that could not claim some form of "emotional" abuse today. This is about money more than anything else. If it were just Joe Schmo coach it likely goes nowhere, but because Nike is involved Cain knows she can possibly strike pay dirt for a career she dreamed of that never materialized.

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      • #33
        Salazar was accused of abuse. There were witnesses who substantiated the abuse. Blaming the victims for not walking away seems . . . not very empathetic for the abused.
        Is he evil? No.
        Did he push too far and hurt people? Yes.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by JMysterio View Post
          No evidence other than sworn testimony of several athletes and others associated with NOP. While not specifically named you can be sure that played into the final decision.
          citation for such "sworn testimony"?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by gh View Post

            citation for such "sworn testimony"?
            Yes ..I would like to see a citation. I've never seen any.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by JMysterio View Post

              The testimonies given by athletes outside of the court that was not used but certainly were known. Just like in a trial you can object, the judge will sustain and the testimony not admitted but the jury hears it anyhow. Add that to what he had been caught doing, they hid the real reason.

              Come on, don't be naive and a Sal-apologist. Magness said he was injected with L-Carnitine and others told of micro dosing testosterone and prednisone. Do you honestly believe Salazar wasn't doping them? Explain why most of his former runners took a dump in the Trials and Olympics post-bust. Rupp, Hasay, Engels, Murphy, Centro, Brazier, Koko, all were considered medal contenders after 2019 Worlds and they all tanked.

              Also, by using such evidence they would also be convicting many top US athletes with large contracts...so they dug just deep enough to get the disease and not the symptoms.
              No one with any association to Salazar swore or claimed to be microdosed with testosterone. Alberto was the only one in the NOP to use pharmaceutical grade testosterone, which he started using in 1991 under the guidance of endocrinologist Jan Smulowitz. There is no evidence or testimony that any of his athletes ever used testosterone or any other PEDs. It is easy to receive a TUE for prednisone, and an unusual choice for anyone to microdose. I, too, would like to see a source for your microdosing references.

              You must not have noticed that Travis Tygart has no qualms about going after top athletes with deep pockets and also came to the conclusion that none of the athletes in the NOP were doping.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
                Rupp just ran 2:06 under tough conditions and finished 2nd in a WMM.
                Engels was never considered a medal contender by anyone.
                Murphy was DFL in 2019 World, the same place he was in Tokyo.
                Centro was 8th in 2019 Worlds.
                Brazier was injured during the Trials.
                Koko was also injured for most of the season.

                On the other hand...

                Hassan won two golds and a bronze at the Olympics.
                Osako finished 6th in the Olympic marathon.
                Hull broke the Oceanian record and made the Olympic final.

                (BTW, Engels, Brazier, Koko, Osako and Hull have been coached by Pete Julian.)
                Engels tanked at Trials at least considered a Tokyo finalist.
                Murphy was absolutely considered a medal contender
                Centro eliminated in semis
                Brazier and Koko...really injured? Brazier healthy enough to lead the trials final then crap out, Koko healthy enough to run the Tokyo finals.
                Hassan I will give you that one, but she was an obvious pick. Hull also exceeded expectations.

                Btw, all were coached by Salazar before he was busted. They went to other coaches and most of them performed less than expected.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post

                  Yes ..I would like to see a citation. I've never seen any.
                  Of course, as I said that would require outing specific athletes and completely decimate US distance credibility.

                  CAS protected the integrity of the athletes while getting rid of problem. They covered the USATF's asses. Big money in US participation on the world stage not to mention Nike.

                  Some of you are afraid to admit that a US organization implemented a systematic doping program on a smaller scale that the Russians did.

                  Salazar: Guilty, appeals upheld, and banned for life. Deal with it.

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                  • #39
                    Engels didn't really tank at trials. He was just beaten by three better athletes.

                    Centro is at BTC now.

                    As for injuries, it is common for athletes to be injured and is not exclusive to NOP. Infeld, Quigley and Cragg, etc are often injured.

                    In any case, it is not relevant to this lawsuit.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JMysterio View Post

                      Of course, as I said that would require outing specific athletes and completely decimate US distance credibility.

                      CAS protected the integrity of the athletes while getting rid of problem. They covered the USATF's asses. Big money in US participation on the world stage not to mention Nike.

                      Some of you are afraid to admit that a US organization implemented a systematic doping program on a smaller scale that the Russians did.

                      Salazar: Guilty, appeals upheld, and banned for life. Deal with it.
                      in other words, you're talking through your hat. Nobody is suggesting that Salazar isn't guilty as sin; facts just not in evidence of being guilty of what you're claiming, and that's not permitted here). please cease and desist

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                      • #41
                        I assume this suit, which likely won't see the light of a courtroom day, will come down to an opinion on whether Cain was restrained from being the athlete she thinks she could have become by her coach. Maybe yes. Maybe no. His comments whether in line or out of line in presentation are probably secondary to the entire case. There are college programs who have athletes who don't advance due to injury all of the time. Stanford has a history of elite athletes at best stagnating and, in some cases, disappearing nearly completely once in their program. NCSU is going through similar issues with some of their athletes. I wonder if a coach at a major collegiate program would need to be concerned about one of his charges filing suit because he or she made his or her athlete run up a hill once too many times which may or may not have caused injury.

                        To me...this all comes back to my initial thoughts on Mary Cain at the time she made the move. But of course we're not allowed to talk about that.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post
                          I assume this suit, which likely won't see the light of a courtroom day, will come down to an opinion on whether Cain was restrained from being the athlete she thinks she could have become by her coach.
                          Really? I'd find that, as you say, an untenable argument. Was he abusive to her? That's my question, which has already been answered by one deliberative panel.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Atticus View Post

                            Really? I'd find that, as you say, an untenable argument. Was he abusive to her? That's my question, which has already been answered by one deliberative panel.
                            The more I read about that deliberative panel, the less I'm impressed by it.

                            Look....I realize that there's going to be some who believe coaches should be nearly completely nurturers who only speak in a positive manner to their charges. There's also going to be those who believe that coaches can also motivate with other...meaner if you will....manners of speaking. Having been witness to collegiate weightrooms for football and collegiate basketball practices, it can get pretty "mean" in there and I have zero problem with that. I dealt with some of it myself as a high school and collegiate athlete years ago.

                            Now Salazar appears to have gone a bit overboard if the claims regarding weight loss are true but I just happen to think that, absent a criminal offense, maybe one just walks away. I'll be accused of victim blaming but I guess but I think this situation was handled so poorly by Cain's side and that includes her parents....particularly from a know your child standpoint... as well as the Salazar/Nike side that any lawsuit from either side is, frankly, ridiculous.

                            There's more there but I'll leave it at that.

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                            • #44
                              Was Salazar any more abusive to athletes than say Bobby Knight or Woody Hayes, and a host of others?

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Tuariki View Post
                                Was Salazar any more abusive to athletes than say Bobby Knight or Woody Hayes, and a host of others?
                                Who also should have been cashiered long before they were.

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