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  • #31
    Ben, don't fret... I had trouble with quite a few different sites over the past few days, even accessing them from a university that is on the backbone. Strange stuff. I for one appreciate the gratis opportunity to talk T&F here!

    Comment


    • #32
      "All- how about you pony up and actually buy something on the e-Store and subscribe to the magazine. There are a lot of regulars here who are not contibuting a dime (even in click-throughs on the ads) to keeping this site or the magazine going."

      Which "all" are you referring to? I've subscribed since June 1968, and have been paying for 1st class delivery for the last 25 years. And I buy a good many of the books that you sell. And, if you'll check past posts, you'll notice that I've CONSTANTLY advised non-subscribers to subscribe. I also don't think I'm so weird as to be a unique case...

      Comment


      • #33
        It sounds like you guys need a web host that can handle an increase in traffic on major championship weekends.

        I've been a subscriber since 1999 thanks to my parents. Someday they'll probably stop paying for my subscription, but I will pkeep paying for it out of my own pocket.

        Comment


        • #34
          I will re-subscribe if you can provide the magasine in an electronic format (just PDF the entire magasine) and offer better than the 2xUSA rates and long lead times to get to me.

          Subscribed between 1985 - 2000, but absolutely too much money to spend getting the hard copy later - much later - than most folks get in the USA.

          Know how I learned about your magasine? Coach at school.

          A bunch of us (10 student/athletes) began subscribing to both this magasine and CA Track & Running News IMMEDIATELY after we first looked at one before driving to a track meet. I could not wait to get this in the mail every month (back then, there were no mainstream ways to get fast results). Same thing I used to do with the LA Times (which, at one point, carried a lot of track info from around the globe), the Chronicle during the week, and the Examiner on Sundays.

          As has been offered to you previously by several posters here, strike some kind of deal with high school teams... this stuff was gold to me when I first got into the sport.

          I used to look up info in an encyclopedia when I first began running - right after the 1984 Olympics. Those books helped me to learning who all these people were who had made news in Los Angeles. Had never heard of Carl Lewis, Brisco-Hooks, or Saïd Aouita. I was not in USA for athletics, and was a book nerd before stepping foot on to American soil for the first time.

          Then out of the blue I get a hold of your magasine, and immediately fell in love with the rich content, stories from back home in Europe (from the circuit), and special features on selected athetes. Moved here, and there, and kept the subscription. Lost track of people back home - as your magasine is USA-oriented for the most part - but kept this as "The Bible" of this sport, anyway.

          I would purchase things from your site if you had a supplier in EU whom I could work with - buy through. The printed magasine will never arrive timely at the same cost the Americans are paying, but I would definitely purchase a subscription to a full online version that I could print off in color and store in a binder somewhere.

          I would hope you would think this a fair trade-off with your outsiders - those of us spread out across Europe and Oceana. You said this is enterprise, and posters who are spread across the world don:t do a thng for your business. If we help keep the board alive with those things both track and field and those things not track and field - and, in the process, help encourage other people who may never have posted, but were only passive observers awaiting a chance to come in - have we not done you a service? If new people begin to post - and tafnut has been the key person here in trying to lock in new people with very deliberate newbie-please-respond posts - and turn into subscribers, have you not won this little pissing match?

          I don:t know if it is from within, or if the pressure on you is coming from corporate sponsors, advertisers or the like, but the face of the magasine and the content/direction/feel of this site has changed over the past 4-6 weeks. If you are in a bind, say so... see what people can dp - and are wiling to do - to help. Otherwise, it just feels like you, gh, turn on the good guy face for a while, then get pissy and start cleaning up things whenever you feel like it:s time for a change.

          The people here are here for a reason: Your magasine. We have all been touched by it in some way, shape and/or form. Whether or not all of us are still directly involved in that subscription fellowship is another story. If you can find a way to please the masses - and those small few who can at least help pay for the host and server invoices by being able to purchase something in their local market - they you can see a tremendous, positive change here.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by tafnut
            Originally posted by bhall
            All- how about you pony up and actually buy something on the e-Store and subscribe to the magazine. There are a lot of regulars here who are not contibuting a dime (even in click-throughs on the ads) to keeping this site or the magazine going.
            I've been supporting the magazine and buying stuff (lots of it) for 30 years - doesn't seem to get ME anywhere. We've been trying to give y'all ideas and all we get are negative replies - you do the math.

            Sorry for the negative tone, but we all DO want to help; it's you guys who seem to not want us to.
            tafnut- My "ALL" was too inclusive. The following sentence narrowed the scope of my request to the regulars who do not contribute any $ to the site or magazine. I appreciate the offer of help but first and foremost (not directed at regulars who subscribe and support) I'd like to see the very large, and often very vocal, number of non-subscribing regulars to the board subscribe to the magazine, buy a book, etc. Ideas and suggestions don't put asses in desk chairs. First and foremost this site is a commercial venture and therefore needs to have a return on investment. Obviously, parts of it are a loss leader and we can live with that. But I've been running this thing for a long time and usage has grown substantially over the years yet the return hasn't.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by bhall
              ...Ideas and suggestions don't put asses in desk chairs. ... But I've been running this thing for a long time and usage has grown substantially over the years yet the return hasn't.
              How many new ideas have been seriously considered, put in front of a focus group, tried and/or tested? Do you know your client base here? Do you know that there is one person here with a great, well-defined background in advertisement? That there are others here in sales and marketing - from outside to senor level?

              There are some here who face the same types of pressure to please different groups with a product and/or service in a paradigm shift.

              The small ideas presented are just bait to see if TFN is supportive of new, fresh ideas. I can:t say one person wants fame, credit and/or notoriety for coming up with a helpful solution. Most of us are well-established people not looking for a pat on the back, just trying to do our part in thinking outside of the box. As you stated, the current way of doing things does not provide a high ROI.

              Comment


              • #37
                Fair enough, bh. We, the 'regulars and longtime subscribers' can't help with getting the Unrepentant to 'subscribe and buy stuff', but we can, as several already do, help you behind the scenes to relieve the pressure of 60-70 hour work weeks (I bet yours rivals gh's, since this is your SECOND job). There are many aspects of this site that could be outsourced FOR FREE (see my post about FAST, USA's subset of ATFS), that would let you do your other duties with greater attention.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by bhall
                  I appreciate the offer of help but first and foremost I'd like to see the very large, and often very vocal, number of non-subscribing regulars to the board subscribe to the magazine, buy a book, etc.
                  Just out of interest, how many of the regulars have NEVER contributed a dime to T&FN (i.e. never bought the mag, a book, been on a tour, etc)? I have emboldened the ones I know for definite have:

                  tafnut
                  MJD
                  EPelle
                  Jon

                  eldrick
                  SQUACKEE
                  Daisy
                  marknhj
                  Pego
                  kuha
                  Powell
                  guru
                  bad hammy
                  mojo

                  trackstar
                  tandfman
                  slowcoach
                  paulthefan
                  mike renfro
                  twittering debutante
                  dukehjsteve
                  Randy Treadway
                  26mi235
                  Cyril
                  RMc
                  Per Andersen
                  BisonHurdler
                  Vern
                  jhc68
                  DrJay
                  BillVol

                  At a guess, I'd say about 75% of the above have. Perhaps they (we) can all set the record straight.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I posted this suggestion in the now deleted gh poll thread but couldn't the server crash issue be solved by giving 3 or 4 people the rights to reset it somehow so bh or gh don't have to man it 24/7? Strikes me that the times that it does crash is usually, by defintion, the worst time for it to go down. Presumably the security issue could be solved in some way.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Jon
                      At a guess, I'd say about 75% of the above have. Perhaps they (we) can all set the record straight.
                      Jon- I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you on this and I'm not going to take the time to look it up. I can tell you that many of those folks have and still do support the magazine. And most of those were support the magazine befofre they even knew about the website. And they are appreciated. I can also tell you that more than a handful do not support it in any way, shape, or form.

                      My point is and has been that this is a business that needs financial support and that this site needs more financial support from its regular users than it has gotten in the past.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by MJD
                        I posted this suggestion in the now deleted gh poll thread but couldn't the server crash issue be solved by giving 3 or 4 people the rights to reset it somehow so bh of gh don't have to man it 24/7? Strikes me that the times that it does crash is usually, by defintion, the worst time for it to go down. Presumably the security issue could be solved in some way.
                        I'm working on implementing that very suggestion now.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by bhall
                          I can also tell you that more than a handful do not support it in any way, shape, or form.

                          My point is and has been that this is a business that needs financial support and that this site needs more financial support from its regular users than it has gotten in the past.

                          I did, for better than 15 years, until my last subscription period expired in October. I also made it a habit to offer subscriptions to my graduating seniors who earned college scholarships(happy to email you a list of names if you'd like to check how much that added up to).

                          Due to the contempt with which the editor of the magazine views many of the "regulars" here, including myself, both ended.
                          There are no strings on me

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            If you think the non-subscribers are not worthy of posting your board, then just restrict access to it. The attitude you're showing here is like a store owner who frowns and says "do you actually want to buy anything?" to people who spend too long looking around and trying things on. And it will have the same effect, i.e. scaring people away.

                            The thing is: I am interested in many of the discussions that go on here, so I do post regularly. I'm not particularly interested in your products, so I don't buy them (except one world rankings issue). I could let you know what sort of T&F stuff I would be interested in buying, but there's no point, since you refuse to take any advice from posters. I actually spend a considerable amount of $s on T&F - but it goes into other folks' pockets, not yours.
                            Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Powell
                              If you think the non-subscribers are not worthy of posting your board, then just restrict access to it. The attitude you're showing here is like a store owner who frowns and says "do you actually want to buy anything?" to people who spend too long looking around and trying things on. And it will have the same effect, i.e. scaring people away.

                              The thing is: I am interested in many of the discussions that go on here, so I do post regularly. I'm not particularly interested in your products, so I don't buy them (except one world rankings issue). I could let you know what sort of T&F stuff I would be interested in buying, but there's no point, since you refuse to take any advice from posters. I actually spend a considerable amount of $s on T&F - but it goes into other folks' pockets, not yours.
                              We are not refusing to take advice from posters. For one thing look at this new message board, the new e-Store, Google ads, partnerships with other sites. Posters suggested all of those.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                bh, gh -- do you see the passion people here have about this site? It is not our home - very few of us have anything to do with its care, maintenance, availability via our own pocketbooks (subscriptions/purchases). I hope people will show their true selves here, so that you can take a good look at what is really driving people to this site - purchasing/subscription patterns notwithstanding.

                                One of the "Things Not Track & Field" was "Why Do You Live Here?" People came up with good answers as to why they frequent this site.

                                Comment

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