PLEASE DON'T HIT REFRESH BUTTON!!!!!

[bhall]

bh, gh -- do you see the passion people here have about this site? It is not our home - very few of us have anything to do with its care, maintenance, availability via our own pocketbooks (subscriptions/purchases). I hope people will show their true selves here, so that you can take a good look at what is really driving people to this site - purchasing/subscription patterns notwithstanding.

One of the "Things Not Track & Field" was "Why Do You Live Here?" People came up with good answers as to why they frequent this site.

I've seen the passion for a long time. I've given hundreds if not thousands of hours of my time to support that passion for this site and the sport. I recognize why people are coming here. I think the community that has evolved is amazing. But I also recognize that the boys in CA need to make money to keep the magazine and site alive and so over the last year I've been pushing harder and hard to find ways to do that. That's what I'm doing now. Pushing. I am not trying to be mean (yah I was pissed at Mark but I understand he was just giving me the business). I am trying to push folks to realize the econimic realities of this place.

[EPelle]

Ben, I don:t think anyone is taking your push as a mean prod. The needs are the business are evident, and you are outlying them very well.

Many here have lamented over the virtually non-existant television coverage of GP and GL meets. Have you given consideration to purchasing internet video feed rights from EU-based firms like Eurosport - or from the IAAF? Some things are not currently possible, because no one thought to bring them up and face the fact that someone may say no. I:ve gotten "No, thanks" from IAAF; EAA; Ireland:s Athletics Federation; Nick Davies; Dyestat; FinishLynx and more - mainly because technology did not exist to cover some things I thought would help draw in even more fans to the sport. I had to take these projects on individually, and go to a source outside of the athletics community to get one project off the ground (as apparently everyone was looking at things through the same glasses of limitation).

Does Track & Field News have to generate money on its own, or can it be a part of a revenue-generating resource shared by other channels? If you are part of something new - maybe not the sole proprietor, and that provides an opportunity for even more revenue down the line, would you not take up the task of investigating that?

I am one person with limited experience, and my own ideas. You have others who have been in the sport for decades - and even some who have travelled around the globe to get a glimpse of this magical sport we call athletics. Theirs and mine - as well as anyone who thinks they have something of value to add - can be a gold mine for you.

[Jon]

Jon- I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you on this

That was never my intention.

I can tell you that many of those folks have and still do support the magazine. And most of those were support the magazine befofre they even knew about the website.

That's all I was trying to say.

EPelle is doing a great job of summing up what pretty much most of the regulars feel. And while this discussion was probably gone into WAY more depth than anyone could have envisaged, all I (we) want to know is - can we get our 'Non-T&F' forum back now...? ops: (The weekend is long gone)

[Pego]

I just discovered this thread and it does not make me happy. Everybody around here belongs to the "the few, the proud" club. Majority of us here contribute financially in some way (I think). The management is desperately trying to stay competetive in the shrinking market. Let's stop the shrill and finger-pointing. The T&FN is the only prominent voice of the sport in USA. Nobody here wants it to die.

[tafnut]

I can tell you that many of those folks have and still do support the magazine. And most of those were support the magazine befofre they even knew about the website. And they are appreciated.

And perhaps that (in red) is the disconnect. We don't come here to 'be appreciated' - the discourse here is its own reward. BUT . . . we don't appreciate being put down for our enthusiasm or our suggestions or our passion for the sport - especially coming from the Powers That Be. Look how many threads are deleted (or an entire forum locked) just because a moderator thinks it's too inflammatory (sometimes it IS and the delete is welcome - but ofttimes, it's harmless banter - Bush/Kerry jokes, etc.)

In order to make this site better, and induce new recruits here and the magazine, maybe we just need a more USER-friendly atmosphere. I realize that I am often seen as a persona non grata, because I have TOO many opinions, but at least I do have opinions and I express them in a civil manner and am RECEPTIVE to other people's ideas. I can take the heat (having perhaps warranted it on occasion), but some people can't/don't. When they see something they posted get deleted or their post be dismissed, it can be intimidating. We all LIKE the vigilance here, but sometimes it IS too heavy-handed/arbitrary. When someone like EPelle (whom I think everyone will admit is a VERY NICE guy) is put off, that should be a clue.

Bottom line - you guys don't have to listen to a single thing we say here - we are, after all, just your guests - but a host should be nurturing in his attention. I bet there are a lot of people around here who have YOUR best intentions in mind. If T&FN goes under, we ALL suffer. As I stated early on in the board's life - I started subscribing in 1970 and waited 33 years for a place to discuss track with 'friends'. When it came, I was hooked (OBVIOUSLY - refer to # of posts on left!). Whatever it takes for you guys to succeed, I'm in for. Wanna do your 'Angels' promotion again? I'll send in $100 for some starter subscriptions. I don't have a lotta money (remember? - school teacher), but I figure any $$ spent on T&F is well spent.

[kuha]

I just discovered this thread and it does not make me happy. Everybody around here belongs to the "the few, the proud" club. Majority of us here contribute financially in some way (I think). The management is desperately trying to stay competetive in the shrinking market. Let's stop the shrill and finger-pointing. The T&FN is the only prominent voice of the sport in USA. Nobody here wants it to die.

Agree completely.

[tlb747]

Let's stop the shrill and finger-pointing. The T&FN is the only prominent voice of the sport in USA. Nobody here wants it to die.

I know I do not want it to die. Sometimes, it keeps my sanity intact.

[Powell]

Ben, I don:t think anyone is taking your push as a mean prod.

Well, actually, I am in a way seeing it as a mean prod in that Ben is suggesting non-subscribers are not welcome on this site.

The needs are the business are evident, and you are outlying them very well.

I would have no problem with anyone from T&FN presenting the business side of the issue, but I get the feeling Ben is trying to present financial support of T&FN as some sort of a moral obligation and make the non-supporters feel guilty. It's for a good reason they call themselves the Bible. I just happen to think there are other ways to T&F salvation than through subscribing to T&FN.

[Powell]

Double post.

[EPelle]

Jon, it is because you asked nicely :-)

Note, it will not always be available.

[tlb747]

Jon, it is because you asked nicely :-)

Note, it will not always be available.

And I will take advantage of it whenever it is because we can address problems here, if there are any.

[MJD]

I posted this suggestion in the now deleted gh poll thread but couldn't the server crash issue be solved by giving 3 or 4 people the rights to reset it somehow so bh of gh don't have to man it 24/7? Strikes me that the times that it does crash is usually, by defintion, the worst time for it to go down. Presumably the security issue could be solved in some way.

I'm working on implementing that very suggestion now.

Bump. There are people on this board that would be happy to help and would have the skills.

[BisonHurdler]

I appreciate the offer of help but first and foremost I'd like to see the very large, and often very vocal, number of non-subscribing regulars to the board subscribe to the magazine, buy a book, etc.

Just out of interest, how many of the regulars have NEVER contributed a dime to T&FN (i.e. never bought the mag, a book, been on a tour, etc)? I have emboldened the ones I know for definite have:

tafnut
MJD
EPelle
Jon
eldrick
SQUACKEE
Daisy
marknhj
Pego
kuha
Powell
guru
bad hammy
mojo
trackstar
tandfman
slowcoach
paulthefan
mike renfro
twittering debutante
dukehjsteve
Randy Treadway
26mi235
Cyril
RMc
Per Andersen
BisonHurdler
Vern
jhc68
DrJay
BillVol

At a guess, I'd say about 75% of the above have. Perhaps they (we) can all set the record straight.

Setting the record straight (better late than never):

I've been an on and off subscriber for several years. If it were up to me, I would've been a full time subscriber since my discovery of the magazine 11 years ago. Unfortunately, at the time my parents felt there were more important things to do with the little money we had. During my poor college years I've been able to spare a few dollars here and there to scrape enough together for a year's subscription a few times. Have bought issues off the stand when I can find them during the several non-subscription years in the past.

I bought Wilbur Ross's "Hurdlers Bible 3rd Edition" from T&FN a few years ago while a senior in high school. Never been on a tour, but would LOVE to some day when I actually have money.