on banning Russians for Ukraine (split)

[Atticus]

I ain't. It's stupid.

A. I was dead-set against the 1980 boycott. In retrospect it achieved nothing and only hurt the athletes.
B. Putin's action are unconscionable and must not be allowed to continue.
C. Is that a reason to punish to punish individuals who have nothing to do with Putin's actions?
D. If we don't ban Russian athletes are we somehow complicit by doing nothing? ("The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”)

I guess my point is that while I support the ban, I feel really badly for the Russian athletes that had nothing to do with Ukraine (baby with the bath-water).

[SoCal45]

I suppose we should not feel too badly for some hyper privileged Russian athletes who miss out on a chance to fly first class to the USA, stay in some luxury hotel, dine at fine restaurants and compete in a track meet...maybe we should reserve our "feeling badly" for the people of Ukraine who are being slaughtered and forced to leave their homes and suffer many other unmentionable horrors. Not mixing politics and sports? That shipped sailed long, long ago when the IOC awarded the 1936 Olympic Games to Hitler.

[Atticus]

I suppose we should not feel too badly for some hyper privileged Russian athletes who miss out on a chance to fly first class to the USA, stay in some luxury hotel, dine at fine restaurants and compete in a track meet...maybe we should reserve our "feeling badly" for the people of Ukraine who are being slaughtered and forced to leave their homes and suffer many other unmentionable horrors. Not mixing politics and sports? That shipped sailed long, long ago when the IOC awarded the 1936 Olympic Games to Hitler.

I can feel badly for both simultaneously . . .
The athletes are just pawns in a madman's chess game. And they are hardly posh jet-set sybarites.

[aaronk]

As my "fans" all know, I've NEVER felt that ALL Russians were dopers, or even verbal supporters of the Russian government doping program!
There ARE clean Russians!
Let them compete AS Russians, firstly!
Secondly, let those "neutrals" hear the RUSSIAN National Anthem when they win Gold, not some stupid ditty made up by the idiots at WA!!
As ever, my blog HONORS the clean Russian athletes by putting in ALL CAPS the fact they're RUSSIAN, and not whatever WA chooses to plaster on these CLEAN athletes!!
For shame, WA!!, for shame!!

And YES, I despise Putin and his inhuman war!!

[SoCal45]

As my "fans" all know, I've NEVER felt that ALL Russians were dopers, or even verbal supporters of the Russian government doping program!
There ARE clean Russians!
Let them compete AS Russians, firstly!
Secondly, let those "neutrals" hear the RUSSIAN National Anthem when they win Gold, not some stupid ditty made up by the idiots at WA!!
As ever, my blog HONORS the clean Russian athletes by putting in ALL CAPS the fact they're RUSSIAN, and not whatever WA chooses to plaster on these CLEAN athletes!!
For shame, WA!!, for shame!!

And YES, I despise Putin and his inhuman war!!

ok, as they say, we will have to agree to disagree.

[bambam1729]

That shipped sailed long, long ago when the IOC awarded the 1936 Olympic Games to Hitler.

Not quite. IOC awarded the 1936 Olympics to Berlin in 1930. Hitler did not come to power until 1933. Of course, the IOC could then have pulled the Games from Berlin but I don't think people realized that he was "Hitler" until about early 1935 and by then too late if they wanted to have an Olympics in 1936.

[SoCal45]

Not quite. IOC awarded the 1936 Olympics to Berlin in 1930. Hitler did not come to power until 1933. Of course, the IOC could then have pulled the Games from Berlin but I don't think people realized that he was "Hitler" until about early 1935 and by then too late if they wanted to have an Olympics in 1936.

but everyone except a few bowed down to the corporal...and to ignore everything he said in Mein Kampf which was published in 1925

they certainly knew hitler was "hitler" when Brundage showed his true colors...https://www.ushmm.org/exhibition/oly...pation&lang=en

[jeremyp]

but everyone except a few bowed down to the corporal...and to ignore everything he said in Mein Kampf which was published in 1925

they certainly knew hitler was "hitler" when Brundage showed his true colors...https://www.ushmm.org/exhibition/oly...pation&lang=en

In Foreign policy countries are judged by their actions not their words. Hitler had certainly talked the talk but had yet to walk the walk.

[jeremyp]

I suppose we should not feel too badly for some hyper privileged Russian athletes who miss out on a chance to fly first class to the USA, stay in some luxury hotel, dine at fine restaurants and compete in a track meet...maybe we should reserve our "feeling badly" for the people of Ukraine who are being slaughtered and forced to leave their homes and suffer many other unmentionable horrors. Not mixing politics and sports? That shipped sailed long, long ago when the IOC awarded the 1936 Olympic Games to Hitler.

Yet I don't recall banning Syrians, Myanmar, Israel, Gaza, West Bank, China, Turkey (invaded Syria twice), Saudi Arabia (Yemen), Egypt (invaded Israel), Iran/Iraq. I agree with Atticus. Individual athletes should not be banned, teams representing their country yes.

[bambam1729]

Yet I don't recall banning Syrians, Myanmar, Israel, Gaza, West Bank, China, Turkey (invaded Syria twice), Saudi Arabia (Yemen), Egypt (invaded Israel), Iran/Iraq. I agree with Atticus. Individual athletes should not be banned, teams representing their country yes.

The IOC has banned several counties. In 1948, Germany, Japan, and Italy were banned from the Olympics. In 1920 Germany, Bulgaria, and Turkey were banned, and Germany remained banned in 1924. South Africa was banned from 1968-1988, although not for military reasons, but for apartheid. North Korea is currently on the banned list because they refused to compete at Tokyo 2020. Yugoslavia was "banned" in 1992 although not really by the IOC, but rather by the United Nations because of the Balkan War against Bosnia-Herzegovina. Those athletes were able to compete only as IOA = Individual Olympic Athletes (current term, originally IOP = Independent Olympic Participants).

[Atticus]

I am all for banning anything 'Russian', but individuals who do not train at govt sponsored training centers, esp, any that have moved to a foreign country to live and train, they should be IOC athletes and selected (qualed) by their WA rankings.
No Russian uniform, no anthem, no recognition at all of Russia (sorry, aaronk, but we do not see eye-to-eye on this at all).

[xw]

Still consider it pointless bullying against innocent individuals. Well maybe not pointless, since nowadays everybody wants to make an easy political statement and show how moral and righteous they are, at other people's cost. And to believe this is really, really going to stop despots from acting or give them second thoughts before they do? Ha.🙂

[TN1965]

When I see self-righteous people playing "guilt-by-association" game, I can see why we cannot get rid of wars.

[Atticus]

nowadays everybody wants to make an easy political statement and show how moral and righteous they are, at other people's cost. And to believe this is really, really going to stop despots from acting or give them second thoughts before they do? Ha.🙂

.

When I see self-righteous people playing "guilt-by-association" game, I can see why we cannot get rid of wars.

I understand the logic behind those statements, and certainly banning Russians does absolutely nothing to Putin's desire for the land bridge to the Black Sea, but that's not the point of banning them - nor is it to look like we're taking the moral high ground; it's only purpose is not continue 'business as usual' with a murderous despot.
Russia must become a pariah state on ALL fronts, and sadly that sacrifices the hard-working athletes too.

[Trickstat]

Back in 1980, the UK did not boycott the Moscow Olympics (a few sports did though). Although the athletes were representing their country, at medal ceremonies the National Anthem was not played and the Olympic flag was raised.