How do we redefine expectations?

[DaveW]

How do we measure the merit of a current track result, and how do we compare it to a past or future result? Not an easy question. I think that we need to recognize that it takes a lot of heart to compete on your own terms, but winning on those terms is quite extraordinary. Respect should be given to many past athletes who were not given fair credit for their effort. We need to understand that future efforts in this field will reflect the best in human nature. And we an look forward to a time when standards have a real meaning that can not be manipulated.

How do we redefine expectations?

[kuha]

You're quite right. It is all about heart. For an objective evaluation, you must kill the athletes in question and weigh and measure their hearts. Then you'll know their real rankings. In case of a tie, you weigh the left kidney.

[DaveW]

Don't ever be so foolish as to think that people can't tell the difference.

[kuha]

Don't ever be so foolish as to think that people can't tell the difference.

Between the right and left kidneys? I'd never be that foolish.

[tafnut]

Re: How do we redefine expectations?

How do we measure the merit of a current track result, and how do we compare it to a past or future result?

I think we'll use a timing system for track and a measuring device for field. That's my guess.

[DaveW]

Did you invest in ENRON based on the numbers?

[eldrick]

You're quite right. It is all about heart. For an objective evaluation, you must kill the athletes in question and weigh and measure their hearts. Then you'll know their real rankings. In case of a tie, you weigh the left kidney.

Big Guy !

we got MRI/ECHOCARDIOGRAPHY for that !

& the winner was...

'73

[eldrick]

Did you invest in ENRON based on the numbers?

he woudn't

risk 5% deposit on a 4/52 duration at mostest, 400 point above current, short-dji call

[DaveW]

I guess some people are good at statistics and surgery, but lack basic judgement skills.

[bad hammy]

I guess some people are good at statistics and surgery, but lack basic judgement skills.

And other people are just loonier than a total nut bag.

[SQUACKEE]

You called? Future efforts in the future will garner respect in terms of the best in human nature and we do need to re -think our reasoning when looking at differant fields and differant times and people of endeavor. And if we dont were just a bunch of glueless M.F'S!

[kuha]

You're quite right. It is all about heart. For an objective evaluation, you must kill the athletes in question and weigh and measure their hearts. Then you'll know their real rankings. In case of a tie, you weigh the left kidney.

Big Guy !

we got MRI/ECHOCARDIOGRAPHY for that !

& the winner was...

'73

Ah, so we can spare their lives? Jolly good! I graduated from the Atilla the Hun School of Medicine, but really haven't kept up with the literature since then.

[eldrick]

actually, that's an excellent point kuha

nowdays, assesment of elite athletes involves VO2 max, lactate blood tests, etc

Echocardiography can help give an idea of heart-efficency - from how much %age of blood is pumped from chambers in one beat, at rest

it may be worth having an echo done at the same time every year ( probably after winter-training done & summer season about to begin ) - it woud indicate if heart is more/less/same efficiency as previous years - give you some guidance, in collaboration with other above tests, whether you're likely to run better this year

daisy has easy access to databases - hopefully he can do a quick search for us on it's relevancy

[Daisy]

http://www.emedicine.com/sports/fulltop ... ndExercise

Google gives you good stuff too.

• "The heart undergoes certain morphological changes in response to chronic exercise, commonly seen via echocardiography. These morphological changes define what is commonly referred to as an "athletic heart." .......
  
  In summary, exercise is accomplished by alteration in the body response to the physical stress. These responses to exercise include an increase in the heart rate, systolic blood pressure, stroke volume, cardiac output, ventilation, and VO2."

I'm not sure if there is much research since there are only a few reviews. This one is most recent, citing 27 paper (may be half on the topic at hand).

• Left atrial geometric and functional remodeling in athletes
  Kasikcioglu E, Oflaz H, Akhan H, et al.
  INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF SPORTS MEDICINE 27 (4): 267-271 APR 2006

While the following has been cited 225 times:

• STRUCTURAL FEATURES OF THE ATHLETE HEART AS DEFINED BY ECHOCARDIOGRAPHY
  MARON BJ
  JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF CARDIOLOGY 7 (1): 190-203 JAN 1986

Of the reviews i saw, the following was interesting from a political/genetic perspective rather than from a training perspective.

• The athlete's heart: Is big beautiful?
  Shephard RJ
  BRITISH JOURNAL OF SPORTS MEDICINE 30 (1): 5-10 MAR 1996
  Abstract: Development of the concept of ''athlete's heart'' is traced through early clinical and radiographic studies to modern echocardiography and magnetic resonance imaging. It is noted that the lower limits of criteria for the diagnosis of a ''pathological'' enlargement of the heart have frequently been revised in an upward direction, as the prevalence of large hearts has been recognised in both endurance and power sports competitors who are in good health. Belief that hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is the commonest cause of sports related death in young adults is traced to weak diagnostic criteria and frequent republication of a very small group of cases. Although the existence of a congenital myocardial dystrophy is now well established, this condition is extremely rare, and has no particular predilection for athletes. Genetically based screening tests may become available in the future, but the exclusion of young adults from sports participation on echocardiographic criteria appears costly and ineffective, For most people, the development of a large heart is not a pathological sign - rather, it is a desirable outcome that will enhance performance on the sports field, and will allow longer independence in old age.