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  • #16
    [quote=bad hammy]
    Originally posted by tandfman
    Originally posted by "bad hammy":1sfd9kek
    gm,

    Take 90 minutes one day and watch An Inconvenient Truth. We are riding one cycle you really don't want any part of . . .
    I suspect gm would rather take 90 minutes of root canal.
    Yep, sometimes the truth is a little painful.

    Originally posted by gh
    . . . I remain not completely convinced that ole mother earth (the Gaia Hypothesis?) can still take care of herself far more than some would have you believe.
    Mother Earth will be just fine. The thing is, she doesn’t care whether you are here and enjoying your ride or not. Things are going to get a bit human hostile over the next couple of hundred years . . .[/quote:1sfd9kek]

    As if we needed more reasons for hostlity .
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley

    Comment


    • #17
      antarctica is cooling

      http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...caclimate.html
      http://www.nationalcenter.org/TSR11502.html

      i was looking at global warming well before the mass media got onto the band wagon. before global warming was largely ignored and now everyone "knows" its a fact.

      after looking at the thing, there's too many holes in the theory and data to get too smug with any theory on climate change. but i'm believing that there is an overall upward trend worldwide.

      what happens with the fad mongers is that they push all the data into their theory and ignore contrary facts. i mean, how much press did the antarctica story get.?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age
      some of the best data in the overall global temperature situation comes from ice core analysis - greenland - antarctica and other shows the long term co2, methane, dust...

      i think they're really getting somewhere with the theory that the variation in atmospheric co2 is strongly correlated with the earths orbit / axis configuration...

      according to this theory, earth should be entering into an ice age as we speak.
      note that some say that ice ages began 40 million years ago and are due to the continents lumping together and stopping ocean water circulation, you know warming the equator and the arctic starts freezing.....rather than a cooler equator and warmer poles...

      possibly the climate of 40 million years ago might be far more desirable than todays, with far less extremes in temperature, large deserts, massive tundras that resemble the surface of mars.....

      http://www.geo.umass.edu/climate/haz...ges/asgard.jpg

      Variations in Earth's orbit (Milankovitch cycles)

      The Milankovitch cycles are a set of cyclic variations in characteristics of the Earth's orbit around the sun. Each cycle has a different length, so at some times their effects reinforce each other and at other times they (partially) cancel each other.

      It is very unlikely that the Milankovitch cycles can start or end an ice age (series of glacial periods):

      * Even when their effects reinforce each other they are not strong enough.
      * The "peaks" (effects reinforce each other) and "troughs" (effects cancel each other) are much more regular and much more frequent than the observed ice ages.

      In contrast, there is strong evidence that the Milankovitch cycles affect the occurrence of glacial and inter-glacial periods within an ice age. The present ice ages are the most studied and best understood, particularly the last 400,000 years, since this is the period covered by ice cores that record atmospheric composition and proxies for temperature and ice volume. Within this period, the match of glacial/interglacial frequencies to the Milanković orbital forcing periods is so close that orbital forcing is generally accepted. The combined effects of the changing distance to the Sun, the precession of the Earth's axis, and the changing tilt of the Earth's axis redistribute the sunlight received by the Earth. Of particular importance are changes in the tilt of the Earth's axis, which affect the intensity of seasons. For example, the amount of solar influx in July at 65 degrees north latitude varies by as much as 25% (from 400 W/m2 to 500 W/m2, see graph at [1]). It is widely believed that ice sheets advance when summers become too cool to melt all of the accumulated snowfall from the previous winter. Some workers believe that the strength of the orbital forcing is too small to trigger glaciations, but feedback mechanisms like CO2 may explain this mismatch.

      While Milankovitch forcing predicts that cyclic changes in the Earth's orbital parameters can be expressed in the glaciation record, additional explanations are necessary to explain which cycles are observed to be most important in the timing of glacial/interglacial periods. In particular, during the last 800,000 years, the dominant period of glacial-interglacial oscillation has been 100,000 years, which corresponds to changes in Earth's eccentricity and orbital inclination. Yet this is by far the weakest of the three frequencies predicted by Milankovitch. During the period 3.0 - 0.8 million years ago, the dominant pattern of glaciation corresponded to the 41,000 year period of changes in Earth's obliquity (tilt of the axis). The reasons for dominance of one frequency versus another are poorly understood and an active area of current research, but the answer probably relates to some form of resonance in the Earth's climate system.



      The present ice age began 40 million years ago with the growth of an ice sheet in Antarctica, but intensified during the Pleistocene (starting around 3 million years ago) with the spread of ice sheets in the Northern Hemisphere. Since then, the world has seen cycles of glaciation with ice sheets advancing and retreating on 40,000- and 100,000-year time scales. The last glacial period ended about ten thousand years ago.

      my most tentative conclusion is that human induced global warming is countering an expected and undesirable cooling effect (see ice core data - prediction) and is therefore a desirable thing

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by mojo
        We had at least three major wind and rain storms (I have lost count).
        Definitely one of the wettest winters I can remember.

        Lots of basements have flooded, our beloved Stanley Park has lost many of its magnificent old trees and the roof on BC place in Vancouver was torn open. :?
        Today is pretty warm in my Greater Vancouver abode adjacent to Burns Bog but it's suppose to hit the freezing point tomorrow and windy and freezing the day after that. Meteorologists are mumbling something about snow in the forecast.

        cman

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by cullman
          Originally posted by mojo
          We had at least three major wind and rain storms (I have lost count).
          Definitely one of the wettest winters I can remember.

          Lots of basements have flooded, our beloved Stanley Park has lost many of its magnificent old trees and the roof on BC place in Vancouver was torn open. :?
          Today is pretty warm in my Greater Vancouver abode adjacent to Burns Bog but it's suppose to hit the freezing point tomorrow and windy and freezing the day after that. Meteorologists are mumbling something about snow in the forecast.

          cman
          yeah we have heard the S word around here for tonight and tomorrow too.

          Wind??? What's that? :roll:


          Stay warm c-man.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by bad hammy
            gm,

            Take 90 minutes one day and watch An Inconvenient Truth. We are riding one cycle you really don't want any part of . . .
            No, I prefer non-alarmist examinations of long-term trends. If Al F'ing Gore is so damned concerned about this stuff, he can get out of his jet, get on his hemp-constructed bicycle, and bike his butt to all those appearances. Until that happens he is just another noise in the background.

            Heck, not too long ago I remember the concern was "the coming Ice Age." I bought a lot of heavy jackets based on those alarmists and now I'm peeved.

            And tandfman, I would probably rather be kicked in the jimmies for 90 minutes than listen to that honk :twisted:

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by gm
              And tandfman, I would probably rather be kicked in the jimmies for 90 minutes than listen to that honk :twisted:
              I was gonna make a snarky comment but I'm preoccupied with the image of tandfman giving gm the Lou Groza treatment to the goonads for 90 minutes. Ouch... :shock:

              cman

              Comment


              • #22
                it's been about 10 degrees above average ever since the beginning of december...

                if it's global warming.....keep it coming...

                seriously, it's all about the jet stream NOT dipping down from canada, and there's a persisent HIGH pressure. much like the bermuda high during the summer season...

                not knowledgeable to know if the presence of the high has anyhting to do with global warming though

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by cullman
                  Originally posted by gm
                  And tandfman, I would probably rather be kicked in the jimmies for 90 minutes than listen to that honk :twisted:
                  I was gonna make a snarky comment but I'm preoccupied with the image of tandfman giving gm the Lou Groza treatment to the goonads for 90 minutes. Ouch... :shock:

                  cman
                  Yeah, I was enjoying picturing that myself . . .
                  :P :twisted: :wink:

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by gh
                    Originally posted by gm
                    Weather cycles, Chicken Hammy, weather cycles. What goes around, comes around, even in weather. Now if you could just get those damn volcanoes to stop spewing out gas at such a high level... :twisted:
                    As a hard-core enviro-friendly, it pains me to say it, but this part of the equation is indeed, IMHO, being underplayed by the Chicken Little scientists of the world. While there's no doubt that man-made actions are exacerbating things at the moment, I remain not completely convinced that ole mother earth (the Gaia Hypothesis?) can still take care of herself far more than some would have you believe. Certainly assigning blame to homo sapiens for minor perturbations in microclimate (which is all we're really talking about here) is too drastic a step to be taking at this point.
                    gh, that sums it up for me. Man has only been keeping spotty records for a few hundred years. The geologic record dates back millions of years. Earth underwent innumerable cycles of global warming and cooling and pole migration before humans evolved. Mans influence is infinitesimal compared to natural forces.
                    There is global warming but it ain't our fault.

                    In 75 years, I have visited every US state, most of Canada, Central America and Western Europe. I have lived in OK, TX, KS, NM, CO,VA, AB, BC and Germany and sojourned long enough for a sampling of weather in half the remaining states.

                    On every day, in every year, in every season, in every one of those places, they were having unusual weather

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bad hammy
                      Originally posted by cullman
                      Originally posted by gm
                      And tandfman, I would probably rather be kicked in the jimmies for 90 minutes than listen to that honk :twisted:
                      I was gonna make a snarky comment but I'm preoccupied with the image of tandfman giving gm the Lou Groza treatment to the goonads for 90 minutes. Ouch... :shock:

                      cman
                      Yeah, I was enjoying picturing that myself . . .
                      :P :twisted: :wink:
                      You guys don't understand. Even thought I said (apparently correctly) that gm would rather undergo 90 minutes of root canal than spend that time watching Al Gore's film, I never suggested that I would be the dentist. Nor would I particularly want to administer the alternative that he suggested. I am not a sadist. (I must admit, though, that I might enjoy luring gm into a movie theater under some pretense and then locking all the doors before he realizes that the Gore film is up next. )

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I always pack a pair of emergency knitting needles so I can gouge my eyes out in a theater...!

                        BTW, wasn't his film title more appropriate to his days as assistant muckety-muck?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          We're long overdue for global famine and pestilence.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Daisy
                            We're long overdue for global famine and pestilence.
                            Whatever happened to the good old plagues of locusts and boils??!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by tafnut
                              Originally posted by Daisy
                              We're long overdue for global famine and pestilence.
                              Whatever happened to the good old plagues of locusts and boils??!!
                              Pesticides and antibiotics, or was that rhetorical?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Daisy
                                We're long overdue for global famine and pestilence.
                                If you're in charge of arranging such things, could you please hold off another century or two.

                                Comment

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