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  • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

    Originally posted by Marlow
    The scientific community, in just the last year or so, has overwhelmingly come to the conclusion that man-made pollutants are indeed 'contributing' to Global Warming (which most definitely is happening), so the only remaining question is (and it is a legitimate question), how much? My opinion is that 'any' is too much, though I do acknowledge the necessity of industrialization in this modern world.
    If you believe that and if you really believe that "any" really is too much then you cant possibly think industrialization is necessary. Rather you should think it is to be stopped and reversed.

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    • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

      It's all due to an increase in humans, doing what humans do: Flatulence. If we corked up those who eat cabbage and beans (you know who you are) we'd have fewer forest fires and hurricanes. I checked with my kitten and he gave me paws up on this one.

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      • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

        Apparently, we are not all reading the same "scientific" articles and/or observing the cyclical nature of climate worldwide since long before there were humans on the planet..

        I don't know how human's came to occupy this planet but I believe we are entitled to use its resources. Does anyone seriously think we could or would be willing to undo technical/industrial progress? Or, you may consider it regression if you prefer a Stone Age lifestyle.

        Happily, we are all free to choose. I choose to live in what others may call blissfully ignorant comfort rather than fretting about what I consider unwarranted concern over man's puny trangressions upon nature.

        This is one of those unresolvable impasses. Go in peace.

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        • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

          All of that sounds more theological to me than scientific.

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          • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

            Originally posted by lonewolf
            Go in peace.
            to love and (pre)serve the earth . . .

            Comment


            • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

              Step 1: No one with any sense denies that the atmosphere has more CO2 now than 30, and 50, and 100 years ago and that the reason is human activity. That is not a fact in dispute by anyone with any credibility and every strong advocate that there is not systematic human-caused climate change has disassociated themselves from those that have.

              Step 2: the link between the chemical changes in the atmosphere and climate is basically very strong, but the dimension and timing is more uncertain, and this is the point where people more reasonably can different, although I think that the evidence and theory is pretty decent about it not being too delayed.

              Step 3: What are the consequences of higher CO2 and warmer temps. I have a paper in Nature more than 20 years ago the estimated the impacts on the US agricultural sector; there are winners and losers in that domain because CO2 acts to make plants grow more quickly and warmer temps help in more extreme (40++ deg N and S, mainly northern because there is not much at the southern extreme) latitudes. Where you can irrigate you are likely a winner. Other primary effects are more problematic; having more shoreline in currently inland areas might help a few, but low-lying areas will eventually have big problems.

              Even more scope for disagreement at this stage.

              Step 4: What to do about it, and are the costs of doing things greater than the effects of Climate Change. Part of the issue is that some gain with some sets of policies (looking at funding for positions, energy firms feel that they are better off not doing anything, which is not too surprising)

              Even more room for disagreement on this step.

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              • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

                Originally posted by 26mi235
                Step 1: No one with any sense denies that the atmosphere has more CO2 now than 30, and 50, and 100 years ago and that the reason is human activity. That is not a fact in dispute by anyone with any credibility and every strong advocate that there is not systematic human-caused climate change has disassociated themselves from those that have.
                .
                Step 1, I dont know what you just said there.

                Originally posted by 26mi235
                Step 4: What to do about it, and are the costs of doing things greater than the effects of Climate Change. Part of the issue is that some gain with some sets of policies (looking at funding for positions, energy firms feel that they are better off not doing anything, which is not too surprising)
                Even more room for disagreement on this step.
                Ill even disagree that energy firms (flush with more cash than most nations) can not profit regardless of the political climate. They will merrily "go-green" and work the carbon credit hustle to bigger profits as they stuff cash in politicians pockets of every persuasion.

                The end result will be that energy companies get fabulously wealthy, politicians get fabulously wealthy and the average joe pays more in taxes and fuel and has the honor of getting the warm and fuzzy feeling that he is saving the planet. It is a win win for everyone.

                Comment


                • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

                  Originally posted by user4
                  If you believe that and if you really believe that "any" really is too much then you cant possibly think industrialization is necessary. Rather you should think it is to be stopped and reversed.
                  Logic error.
                  Like lonewolf, I believe that the earth can sustain a certain amount of industrialization and flourish. It's like peeing in a really big pool. If one person does it, no one's the wiser or worse off. If everyone does it, then you have a real problem. Right now there is just too much pee in the pool.

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                  • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

                    Originally posted by Marlow
                    Originally posted by user4
                    If you believe that and if you really believe that "any" really is too much then you cant possibly think industrialization is necessary. Rather you should think it is to be stopped and reversed.
                    Logic error.
                    Like lonewolf, I believe that the earth can sustain a certain amount of industrialization and flourish. It's like peeing in a really big pool. If one person does it, no one's the wiser or worse off. If everyone does it, then you have a real problem. Right now there is just too much pee in the pool.
                    That was not what you said, you said:
                    Originally posted by Marlow
                    My opinion is that 'any' is too much, though I do acknowledge the necessity of industrialization in this modern world.
                    Those two clauses, statements contradict each other.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

                      Originally posted by user4
                      Originally posted by Marlow
                      My opinion is that 'any' is too much, though I do acknowledge the necessity of industrialization in this modern world.
                      Those two clauses, statements contradict each other.
                      You're being waaay too literal. Literary license allows (demands?) an emphatic statement for effect. The astute reader is to infer its actual scope and intent.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

                        Originally posted by Marlow
                        Originally posted by user4
                        Originally posted by Marlow
                        My opinion is that 'any' is too much, though I do acknowledge the necessity of industrialization in this modern world.
                        Those two clauses, statements contradict each other.
                        You're being waaay too literal. Literary license allows (demands?) an emphatic statement for effect. The astute reader is to infer its actual scope and intent.
                        Wow, you are beginning to sound like a politician :wink:

                        Comment


                        • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

                          Originally posted by odelltrclan
                          Wow, you are beginning to sound like a politician :wink:
                          You take that back!!! :cry:

                          Comment


                          • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

                            Originally posted by odelltrclan
                            Originally posted by Marlow
                            Originally posted by user4
                            Originally posted by Marlow
                            My opinion is that 'any' is too much, though I do acknowledge the necessity of industrialization in this modern world.
                            Those two clauses, statements contradict each other.
                            You're being waaay too literal. Literary license allows (demands?) an emphatic statement for effect. The astute reader is to infer its actual scope and intent.
                            Wow, you are beginning to sound like a politician :wink:
                            Actually this helps.. I now know to read Marlow's posts as poetry.

                            My own opinion is that it is healthful for me to conserve in my private economic decision. I take shorter showers, I recycle, I do all those things that I consider to be economically and personally frugal because it reinforces in my life order and discipline that has greater value for my family. However I have no illusion that it matters one bit to the health of the planet or that it will make a perceptible difference in the lives of people on the other side of the planet. It wont. Even perfect totalitarian control by a board of scientists will not change the course of the earth one bit. The Earth has been here for 4 billion years, and over that time it has slowly morphed from a ball of hot molten material to this now cooler planet .. industrial man has been here for only the last 2 hundred years.

                            As for the anthropogenic global hot air syndrome, we have had shaman and high priest gas bags for 20 thousand years. It is just that in the last 20 years they can jet around the globe like the rich and famous, self promote and make a fabulous profit selling a guilt trip.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

                              Originally posted by user4
                              I have no illusion that it matters one bit to the health of the planet or that it will make a perceptible difference in the lives of people on the other side of the planet. It wont.
                              Your one contribution is not alone. In concert with many others, a large difference will be made.

                              Thus spake the poetaster :wink:

                              Comment


                              • Re: Weather Acting Funny in Your Neighbourhood?

                                Originally posted by user4
                                As for the anthropogenic global hot air syndrome, we have had shaman and high priest gas bags for 20 thousand years. It is just that in the last 20 years they can jet around the globe like the rich and famous, self promote and make a fabulous profit selling a guilt trip.
                                This line of argument is always laughably unconvincing. If you want to talk about economic motivations, then you really need to go where the money is: the global fossil fuel industry. Compared to their economic incentives for maintaing the status quo, the supposed "greed" of a few hundred academics doesn't even register.

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