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Best heavyweight boxer ever?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by gm
    Ali in his prime would have toyed with Tyson, outboxed him 'til he made his head swim.
    Ali's super fast and deadly left jab would have turned Tyson's face into hamburger.
    phsstt!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by SQUACKEE
      Originally posted by gm
      Ali in his prime would have toyed with Tyson, outboxed him 'til he made his head swim.
      Ali's super fast and deadly left jab would have turned Tyson's face into hamburger.
      I don't care if Ali's jaw was made of a titanium/kevlar alloy, if Tyson had connected, it would have been lights out. The real question is - could he have connected? I see squackee's point that Ali could have kept Tyson at bay and won on points, but if Ali had made one careless, cocky error with Tyson, the Foreman bombs would have felt like mosquito bites compared to what Tyson was delivering.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by tafnut
        Originally posted by SQUACKEE
        Originally posted by gm
        Ali in his prime would have toyed with Tyson, outboxed him 'til he made his head swim.
        Ali's super fast and deadly left jab would have turned Tyson's face into hamburger.
        I don't care if Ali's jaw was made of a titanium/kevlar alloy, if Tyson had connected, it would have been lights out. The real question is - could he have connected? I see squackee's point that Ali could have kept Tyson at bay and won on points, but if Ali had made one careless, cocky error with Tyson, the Foreman bombs would have felt like mosquito bites compared to what Tyson was delivering.
        Tyson couldnt "deliver the bomb" with his eyes swollen shut. :P
        phsstt!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by SQUACKEE
          Tyson couldnt "deliver the bomb" with his eyes swollen shut. :P
          Tyson was at his scariest in the first three rounds, long before Ali could have jabbed his eyes shut (which he didn't even do with most of his opponents, so I rather doubt it would have happened to Tyson). If Ali was in his playful mood, with the Shuffle, etc., that would have made Tyson so mad, I would have feared for Ali's life (or ear). When Tyson got pissed off in his earlier fights, he punched through opponents not at them. I am not even a Tyson fan; he just really, really scared me with his ability to inflict pain.

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          • #20
            larry holmes was in no doubt about tyson's ability - he wasn't a man who doled out praise, but he was pretty respectful of his fighting abilities after he'd been ko'ed by him

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            • #21
              Originally posted by tafnut
              Foreman bombs would have felt like mosquito bites compared to what Tyson was delivering.
              You can't be serious. :roll: :roll: :roll: Tyson was certainly quicker than Foreman, but for unadulterated punching power, George Foreman was in a league of his own. And if Foreman couldn't knock Ali out, how do you suppose a smaller weaker Tyson would do it? When he threw his uppercuts, he would literally lift people off the canvas like something from a cartoon. Ali said that he could feel Foreman's punches all the way down to his toes. Another thing you have to remember is that Ali came of age when the heavyweight division was probably at its deepest in history. Football players were still making four and five figure salaries while boxers were making seven figure salaries. By the time Tyson came along, hundreds of football players were making seven figure salaries and the heavyweight division had become a joke.

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              • #22
                there's no reason to believe tyson was "weaker" than foreman :

                when foreman won the title from frazier, he was 217 & when he fought ali he was 220 :

                http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer


                when tyson won the title from berbick, he weighed 221 ( with no discernible flab on him ) :

                http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

                their fighting weights certainly don't support tyson being "weaker"

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                • #23
                  Without any scientific evidence or knowledge at all, I posit that a 5-10, 220#, low-fat boxer is probably "stronger"than a 6-2, 220# equally low-fat boxer.
                  I don't know what the compensating advantage, if any, of a round-house blow swung through a wider arc might be.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by lonewolf
                    Without any scientific evidence or knowledge at all, I posit that a 5-10, 220#, low-fat boxer is probably "stronger"than a 6-2, 220# equally low-fat boxer.
                    I don't know what the compensating advantage, if any, of a round-house blow swung through a wider arc might be.
                    Whenever Thomas Hearns stepped into the ring as a welterweight, he was always the tallest and most svelte boxer in the ring. And he was also always the most devastating puncher..

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                    • #25
                      Good point, jazzcyclist, I admit, I don't know the answer.

                      Legendary wrestling coach, Ed Gallager, who won gobs of NCAA titles at Oklahoma A&M, preferred long lanky wrestlers at any given weight.. something about leverage, although seems it seems to me any advantage/disadvantage would cut both way.

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                      • #26
                        I dunno, maybe that shorter for a given weight is stronger only applies for weight lifters.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dukehjsteve
                          Originally posted by tafnut
                          I'll be roundly booed for this (isn't Ali the de facto GOAT?), but when Tyson first hit his prime, I just can't see ANYONE beating him.
                          I agree with tafnut on this. NOBODY could hit/intimidate like Tyson in his prime.
                          They said that about Sonny Liston, too. And then George Foreman as well. I believe they were both beaten by Ali - a young, too cocky Ali, and an older, ring-wise Ali. I agree with jazzcyclist's comments on this one.

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                          • #28
                            Also, as to Tyson vs. Ali - Tyson is only about 5-9. No taller than Frazier was, and not nearly as tough. He would have had a hard time reaching Ali to deliver those blows. And jazzcyclist is right about Foreman's punching power - they said the same thing about him that they did about Tyson. Frazier had the final comment after the Thrilla in Manila, even though he did not like the man, "Lawdy, lawdy, he's a great champion. I hit him with punches woulda brought down the walls of a barn and he took them. He's a man." And Ali on Frazier, "If I ever fight a Holy War, I want Joe Frazier fighting beside me."

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                            • #29
                              Sonny Liston may have been the most intimidating heavyweight champion in history. He was, afterall, a mafia enforcer before he was a professional boxer. According to Dick Schapp, outside of the ring, Ali, who probably had never been in a street fight in his life, was terrified of Liston. But inside of the ring where there were rules and referees, he was in total control.

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