I bet you didn't know C.K. Yang was Japanese!

[catson52]

Gentlemen !! Gentlemen!!..
In the immortal words of the Cool Hand Luke prison warden, "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

No where did I state or imply that CK Yang was Japanese or competed for Japan in the 1930s-40s or at anytime.

My original post was prompted by a memory that, prior to WWII, some Koreans were forced to compete for Japan under a Japanese name, the most notable being Son Gi Jeong who won the marathon at Berlin OG in 1936 as Kitei Son. Previously, Son Ki Jonk competed under the Japanese flag in the marathon at the 1912 Stockholm OG as Shizou Karaguri.
(Please don't nit-pick the spelling, no two sources agree.)

Not that it has anything to do with this thread but ,as a sign of the times, Japan also impressed Korean "comfort women" involuntarily into military brothels.

I apologize for carelessly creating this tempest in a teapot by not being more specific in my original and follow-up comment and I appreciate the supportive comments from those of you who have been here long enough to know something of my history. I have plenty of experience making mistakes and have no problem recanting a misstatement of fact. I respect everyone's right to an opinion, whether or not I agree, and will not resort to personal attacks beyond :P gotchas.

Further affiant sayeth not.

Case closed.

As a relative newcomer to these "pages", and having seen some fairly nasty exchanges between people, I am impressed by the respect shown to lonewolf.
As early as 1954, Yang competed under Formosan colors at the Asian Games in Manila, and won the deca gold.

[lonewolf]

Gentlemen !! Gentlemen!!..
In the immortal words of the Cool Hand Luke prison warden, "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

No where did I state or imply that CK Yang was Japanese or competed for Japan in the 1930s-40s or at anytime.

My original post was prompted by a memory that, prior to WWII, some Koreans were forced to compete for Japan under a Japanese name, the most notable being Son Gi Jeong who won the marathon at Berlin OG in 1936 as Kitei Son. Previously, Son Ki Jonk competed under the Japanese flag in the marathon at the 1912 Stockholm OG as Shizou Karaguri.
(Please don't nit-pick the spelling, no two sources agree.)

Not that it has anything to do with this thread but ,as a sign of the times, Japan also impressed Korean "comfort women" involuntarily into military brothels.

I apologize for carelessly creating this tempest in a teapot by not being more specific in my original and follow-up comment and I appreciate the supportive comments from those of you who have been here long enough to know something of my history. I have plenty of experience making mistakes and have no problem recanting a misstatement of fact. I respect everyone's right to an opinion, whether or not I agree, and will not resort to personal attacks beyond :P gotchas.

Further affiant sayeth not.

Case closed.

[26mi235]

CK Yang competed in 1960 in rome, so there's no way he could have competed for japan. is that so hard for you to capisce? end of history lesson.

You need to read his comment -- he knows damn well when he competed; there is a non-trivial likelihood that he (lonewolf) was friends with him/knows him (CK).

Note that the statement does not cite specifically that he competed as a Japanese but that there might be some Japanese component to his official or unofficial nationality (which seems to be confirmed by other comments by people that were disagreeing with you). You made linkage from a statement that was not absolutely precise in how it was made and went off into lala land of commentary.

[bad hammy]

well, lonewolf, here we are criticizing jim lampley's slip of the tongue, and yet you mistake the 1930s and 1940s with the 1960s. consider that.

I don't know about CK Yang but many Koreans were forced to compete for Japan in the 30s and 40s.

cacique,

Dude, really, your jumping on lonewolf here is ridiculous to say the least, both because of your target and the fact that you are erroneous in your interpretation of what he is saying.



As for the original post, I saw the broadcast of Lampley saying that Yang was Japanese. Of course it jumped out at me, but I have to believe it was a slip of the tongue, not some microscopic parsing of any info related to the sovereignty of Formosa/Taiwan back when Yang was born.

[cacique]

CK Yang competed in 1960 in rome, so there's no way he could have competed for japan. is that so hard for you to capisce? end of history lesson.

[26mi235]

well, lonewolf, here we are criticizing jim lampley's slip of the tongue, and yet you mistake the 1930s and 1940s with the 1960s. consider that.

I don't know about CK Yang but many Koreans were forced to compete for Japan in the 30s and 40s.

I think that you should take back your comment and your tone. You also need to improve your ability to read nuance; until you get those two things more in sync don't be so pissy to very senior posters on this board. [Do you really think that lonewolf thinks he competed in the 30s and 40s, do you not see that the reference might be to his 'nationality' (born as a subject to the Japanese)? Do you bother to remember what lonewolf's background is?]

lonewolf
"Well, cacique, I deplore pissing contests and ordinarily would ignore your history lesson but since I came along in 1931 , long before WWII, I have lived a lot of that history. Yang was a comtemporary, I know when he competed. My reference was to the facts more clearly pointed out by mike refro that Yang was born a Japanese subject, though not a Japanese citizen or of Japanese ancestry.
Thank you, mike, for clarifying my careless statement that some of the youngsters apparently misunderstood."

"I don't know about CK Yang but many Koreans were forced to compete for Japan in the 30s and 40s."

Renfro:
"When wasC K born? Until the fall of Japan in 1945 Taiwan was Formosa and was a Japanese possession. So it is possible that he started life, technically as Japanese. I'll google this and she what's shakin'

Born in 1933 in Taiwan, then Formosa. So, he was a Japanese subject. My guess is that he was not a citizen."

[Quick Silver]

C.K.-san

Formosa was a province of Japan at the time of his birth, so C.K. Yang would have been a full-fledged Japanese citizen until 1945, despite his aboriginal background.

Contrary to PRC propaganda, 1945 is the first time Formosa ever became part of China. It was ceded by Japan to the Republic of China in the WWII peace treaty, and after 1949 became the ROC's only remnant. (Before 1900, Manchuria was a separate country and Formosa, like China itself, was a colony of Manchuria.) When Yang was competing, he, like Chi Cheng, represented the Republic of China, the only China the IOC and IAAF recognized in those days.

Jared Dimond, in "Guns, Germs and Steel", makes a convincing case that the Filipinos, Indonesians, Polynesians and even the Maoris were descended from Yang's aboriginal forefathers.

Quick Silver
Hong Kong

[cacique]

well, lonewolf, here we are criticizing jim lampley's slip of the tongue, and yet you mistake the 1930s and 1940s with the 1960s. consider that.

I don't know about CK Yang but many Koreans were forced to compete for Japan in the 30s and 40s.

[cacique]

not really. the taiwanese aborigines come from indonesia or phillipines.

"The Taiwanese Aborigines are Austronesian peoples, with linguistic and genetic ties to other Austronesian ethnic groups, such as peoples of the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Madagascar and Oceania"

reference:

http://palaeoworks.anu.edu.au/pubs/Birdetal04.pdf

i don't think australian aborigines are related to the malay/indonesian peoples (the so-called austronesians). that was my point. australian aborigines are believed to have arrived in australia much earlier than the austronesian/polynesian migrations.

[cacique]

When wasC K born? Until the fall of Japan in 1945 Taiwan was Formosa and was a Japanese possession. So it is possible that he started life, technically as Japanese. I'll google this and she what's shakin'

Born in 1933 in Taiwan, then Formosa. So, he was a Japanese subject. My guess is that he was not a citizen.

correct, but in 1960, he would not be representing japan.

[lonewolf]

I don't know about CK Yang but many Koreans were forced to compete for Japan in the 30s and 40s.

CKY came about way after the WWII ended... get your history right.

Well, cacique, I deplore pissing contests and ordinarily would ignore your history lesson but since I came along in 1931 , long before WWII, I have lived a lot of that history. Yang was a comtemporary, I know when he competed. My reference was to the facts more clearly pointed out by mike refro that Yang was born a Japanese subject, though not a Japanese citizen or of Japanese ancestry.
Thank you, mike, for clarifying my careless statement that some of the youngsters apparently misunderstood.

[Novitiate]

not really. the taiwanese aborigines come from indonesia or phillipines.

"The Taiwanese Aborigines are Austronesian peoples, with linguistic and genetic ties to other Austronesian ethnic groups, such as peoples of the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Madagascar and Oceania"

reference:

http://palaeoworks.anu.edu.au/pubs/Birdetal04.pdf

[mike renfro]

When wasC K born? Until the fall of Japan in 1945 Taiwan was Formosa and was a Japanese possession. So it is possible that he started life, technically as Japanese. I'll google this and she what's shakin'

Born in 1933 in Taiwan, then Formosa. So, he was a Japanese subject. My guess is that he was not a citizen.

[cacique]

I don't know about CK Yang but many Koreans were forced to compete for Japan in the 30s and 40s.

CKY came about way after the WWII ended... get your history right.

[cacique]

Re: I bet you didn't know C.K. Yang was Japanese!

Was it ignorance, a slip, or was he afraid he'd offend the Chinese by mentioning Taiwan? (Hey I'm not being facetious, I just read that the American Standard name was covered up on the urinals!.)

ah, the joys of capitalism...