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  • Chinese gymnasts still golden?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/sport ... ref=slogin
    Walker said he believed that the documents he found belied the latest claims of Chinese government officials. And for the last 10 days, he said he had been playing a sort of cat-and-mouse game with people he believes are trying to erase digital tracks that may point to further evidence that some Chinese gymnasts were under age.
    I just don't believe the IOC has the nerve to take away gold medals from little girls (after a successful games).

  • #2
    Can't they just look at old school records? What year were they in what 'grade' (which I assume not to correlate to our grades, but they must correlate to some known progression)?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Marlow
      Can't they just look at old school records? What year were they in what 'grade' (which I assume not to correlate to our grades, but they must correlate to some known progression)?
      I think the older documents found show them to be too young. China has provided contraictry passports. It seems like it's come down to the IOC's willingness to call China on forging documents, not wether or not China has produced fraudulent documents.

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      • #4
        The Chinese reneged on so many promises that I have no confidence the IOC
        will object to something so trivial as ineligible athletes unless, of course, they were US athletes..

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        • #5
          Originally posted by lonewolf
          The Chinese reneged on so many promises that I have no confidence the IOC will object to something so trivial as ineligible athletes unless, of course, they were US athletes..
          I'm pretty sure the Chinese scheduled some of their IOC member pay-offs for after the Games were put to bed and messy things like rules and medals were forgotten by the media.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bushop
            It seems like it's come down to the IOC's willingness to call China on forging documents, not wether or not China has produced fraudulent documents.
            If a country is systematically forging documents I don't see what the IOC can do about it. Most of their power comes before the games, i.e. who they award the games to, or possibly they could strip a country of the games. Once the games are over they lose their leverage.

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            • #7
              Birth certificates said they were younger but the passports said they were older. Both documents are generated by the Government, anyway.

              Still, it is not like you are complaining about having older kids playing against younger ones, here. The complaint is that they are being beaten by kids. Kinda lame, if you ask me. ops:

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Kevin Richardson
                The complaint is that they are being beaten by kids. Kinda lame, if you ask me. ops:
                I guess there is a case that they can tumble (is that the correct term?) more easily.

                The world junior (or is it youth?) soccer tournament and track and field junior championships have seen this too (although, overage in those cases) . But has any country ever been officially repremanded for forging official documents? I suspect its much harder to prove than we think.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Daisy
                  If a country is systematically forging documents I don't see what the IOC can do about it. Most of their power comes before the games, i.e. who they award the games to, or possibly they could strip a country of the games. Once the games are over they lose their leverage.
                  Not all of it. They can still strip medals.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tandfman
                    They can still strip medals.
                    Good point, but to do that they have to prove the documents are fake. Is it possible? Or do they just act as jury and judge? I realise they can do that, i.e. Thanou, but would they?

                    What is to stop the government claiming there are errors in the birth certificates, assuming the IOC even have access to those documents? i agree the paper trail gives the impression of guilt beyond reasonable doubt but is that enough to strip a medal?

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                    • #11
                      I agree, it is a little wierd to anguish over athletes being too young but why have any rules if they can be circumvented with enough stroke? Does anyone think any other nation would have gone unchallenged in the face of the gathering evidence.?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lonewolf
                        Does anyone think any other nation would have gone unchallenged in the face of the gathering evidence.?
                        I think all nations would go challenged and we have seen it in the past. I just don't know of any examples where any action has been taken in the past?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lonewolf
                          I agree, it is a little wierd to anguish over athletes being too young but why have any rules if they can be circumvented with enough stroke? Does anyone think any other nation would have gone unchallenged in the face of the gathering evidence.?
                          It's the tragedy of the Beijing Games ... China snubbed their nose at the world ... continued their immoral practices ... and were praised and adored by the media.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kevin Richardson

                            Still, it is not like you are complaining about having older kids playing against younger ones, here. The complaint is that they are being beaten by kids. Kinda lame, if you ask me. ops:
                            I agree. This whole story sounds like it was taken from the Onion.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by malmo
                              Originally posted by Kevin Richardson
                              Still, it is not like you are complaining about having older kids playing against younger ones, here. The complaint is that they are being beaten by kids. Kinda lame, if you ask me. ops:
                              I agree. This whole story sounds like it was taken from the Onion.
                              It's the attitude behind it. According to the IOC the rule was implemented due to "abuse" concerns for the younger athletes. Something the Chinese aren't too worried about.

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