Had enough [split]

[Bruce Kritzler]

Excellent issue - great pictures, articles, letters to the editor, and fine editorial.
Noticed two instances of "had had" usage. Doesn't one "had" give the same meaning?

[tandfman]

Excellent issue - great pictures, articles, letters to the editor, and fine editorial.
Noticed two instances of "had had" usage. Doesn't one "had" give the same meaning?

Absolutely not. Different tenses. Had is the simple past tense, had had is the past perfect. Not being a TOE, I won't lecture on this. Here's more:

http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/simplepast.html
http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/pastperfect.html

(That having been said, I've no idea if the magazine used the past perfect correctly. I assume it did, but I haven't received my issue yet and so I haven't seen the usages of "had had." And truthfully, when I do get my issue, looking for those usages is not going to be near the top of my list of things to do.)

[Marlow]

Thanks tandfman, I had read that and just sighed.

There is also is the matter of 'had' in the sense of must: He had had to go.

[George P.]

There is also is the matter of

That must be another one of those arcane past-future participle conjugated declensions. :wink:

[TrackCEO]

That must be another one of those arcane past-future participle conjugated declensions. :wink:

Ha! You won't see THIS level of discourse on letsrun.com!

K E N

[lonewolf]

I am not a TOE but, in my experience, there are times when "had had" is not only permissible but preferred.
I read a sentence last night which included "people people" . I was giving momentary pause but concluded it was correct and I could not improve on it.

[Pego]

Thanks tandfman, I had read that and just sighed.

There is also is the matter of 'had' in the sense of must: He had had to go.

I am utterly confused. What is the difference between "he had to go" and "he had had to go"? Does the latter correspond to "he must have gone"? Or neither one does?

[Daisy]

Marlow Had and Mrs Had had a boy called Had Had. The boy that Mrs Had and Marlow Had had had (Had Had) had had no dinner yet.

[gh]

As always our friend mr. google provides multiple sources for answers. Can't do much better than BBC on learning English:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learn ... v343.shtml

[gh]

And then there's this had-had to the nth power puzzle!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_whil ... he_teacher.

[dakota]

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

[Daisy]

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

According to wikipedia
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo

Works too!!!!!!

[gh]

that's just making me ravenous for wings!

[tandfman]

If you really want to get enmired in language stuff, here's a web resource, but first a warning.

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate:

http://linguistlist.org/

[dakota]

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate:

Sounds like the start of a Bret Easton Ellis novel.