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  • a rather apocalyptic view of the U.S. position

    Perhaps one of our Brit friends can enlighten us as to what kind of a political stance The Guardian usually takes (I know it only as a fabulous source of track articles). I have no idea if this is just an "unbiased" bit of analysis or if it has a slant of some sort.

    This is pretty scary stuff taken at face value though.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... omicgrowth

    << The fate of empires is very often sealed by the interaction of war and debt. That was true of the British Empire, whose finances deteriorated from the First World War onwards, and of the Soviet Union. Defeat in Afghanistan and the economic burden of trying to respond to Reagan's technically flawed but politically extremely effective Star Wars programme were vital factors in triggering the Soviet collapse. Despite its insistent exceptionalism, America is no different. The Iraq War and the credit bubble have fatally undermined America's economic primacy. >>

  • #2
    Go left, young man, and there you will find the guardians of the Grauniad.

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    • #3
      The world snipes at the United States but doesn't hesitate to turn to us for help. We will survive.

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      • #4
        So that was Osama's master plan to bring down the US...

        (It is, however, well accepted that war is a great maker-and-breaker of
        super-powers. Notably, the really big wars, like the Thirty-Years War, the
        Napoleonic wars, or WW I/WW II are somewhat reminiscent of the mass-dyings of
        biology.)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by gm
          Go left, young man, and there you will find the guardians of the Grauniad.
          John Gray isn't a journalist, he's a respected political philosopher at the London School of Economics.

          Originally posted by gh
          I have no idea if this is just an "unbiased" bit of analysis or if it has a slant of some sort.
          Here's how The New Yorker summarized his last book:

          “Modern politics is a chapter in the history of religion,” Gray, a British philosopher, insists in this outspoken attack on utopianism and the “faith-based violence” it has inspired. History, Gray writes, offers no new dawns or sharp breaks, and, from the French Revolution to the war on terror, he is as critical of the humanist belief in progress as of the “belligerent optimism” of neoconservatives. Sketching the roots of utopianism, he emphasizes the similarities between seemingly disparate movements: radical Islam, he suggests, might best be thought of as “Islamo-Jacobinism.” Taking the Iraq war as an object lesson, he argues for an acknowledgment that the “local pieties of Atlantic democracy” are not the only way to govern. Gray’s writing has a bracing clarity, but he tries to fit too much into his model of utopianism with too little argument.

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          • #6
            John Gray is a brilliant and unconventional thinker, but one given to rather apocalyptic scenarios. (Not that that means he's wrong!) For a sample of his work, I recommend "Straw Dogs: Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals" (2007), among his numerous other volumes. He's no light-weight.

            Edit: Having now taken the time to read his piece carefully, I'd bet that he's far more correct than not.

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            • #7
              The biggest problem with most "thoughtful analyses" is their utter lack of offering any practical, useful, workable solutions.
              "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
              by Thomas Henry Huxley

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Pego
                The biggest problem with most "thoughtful analyses" is their utter lack of offering any practical, useful, workable solutions.
                Human nature is such that action rarely matches up with "thoughtful analysis" anyway...

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                • #9
                  Re: a rather apocalyptic view of the U.S. position

                  Originally posted by gh
                  This is pretty scary stuff taken at face value though.
                  << The fate of empires is very often sealed by the interaction of war and debt. That was true of the British Empire, whose finances deteriorated from the First World War onwards, and of the Soviet Union. Defeat in Afghanistan and the economic burden of trying to respond to Reagan's technically flawed but politically extremely effective Star Wars programme were vital factors in triggering the Soviet collapse. Despite its insistent exceptionalism, America is no different. The Iraq War and the credit bubble have fatally undermined America's economic primacy. >>
                  This sounds similar to what this well-known American conservative has been saying the last couple of weeks.
                  Looking at all the money being ladled out by the U.S. government to prevent a collapse, and the diminished revenue coming in, it is hard to see how America avoids future deficits that reach $1 trillion a year. These will imperil both the dollar itself and the ability of the United States, which saves nothing, to borrow from the rest of the world. The downsizing of America is at hand.

                  Yes, indeed, we have arrived at the Day of Reckoning for Uncle Sam.
                  http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=76313
                  The Crash of 2008, which is now wiping out trillions of dollars of our people's wealth, is, like the Crash of 1929, likely to mark the end of one era and the onset of another.

                  The new era will see a more sober and much diminished America. The "Omnipower" and "Indispensable Nation" we heard about in all the hubris and braggadocio following our Cold War victory is history.....

                  What we are witnessing is the collapse of Gordon Gecko ("Greed Is Good!") capitalism. What we are witnessing is what happens to a prodigal nation that ignores history, and forgets and abandons the philosophy and principles that made it great.....

                  What the Greatest Generation handed down to us – the richest, most powerful, most self-sufficient republic in history, with the highest standard of living any nation had ever achieved – the baby boomers, oblivious and self-indulgent to the end, have frittered away.
                  http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=75638

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                  • #10
                    I don't often agree with Pat Buchanan, but there's some truth to what he is saying here. I particularly appreciate his recognizing that the "greed is good" philosophy is part of what got us to where we are.

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                    • #11
                      Since we're celebrating the apocalypse, how about a view from the right that says forget this tiny 700B hiccup and think about the 41T iceberg of entitlements that's floating in the waters ahead

                      http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 010&sc=446

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                      • #12
                        This post has also lived its useful life span and is now locked.

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