Is Geb the greatest endurance athlete ever??

[parkerrclay]

While Geb's status as greatest distance runner ever is not universally accepted (see Geb vs Nurmi below)..it seems that most people think he is.

Having said that, where does Geb rank as the best endurance athlete ever? Here are a few contenders that come to mind - Nurmi, Zatopek, Bikila, Viren, Bekele (with more to come), Kouros, Merckx, Hinault, Armstrong (inc his triathlon days), Coppi, Indurain, Mark Allen, Luc van Lierde, Dave Scott, Bjorn Daehlie, Eric Heiden, Clas Thunberg, Grant Hackett and Abo Heif (http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Loge/2420/)

[imaginative]

Finding this question very interesting, I spent a few minutes thinking it over.
Unfortunately, I soon became convinced that if there is an answer it is far
beyond me. The problem is that there are have been too many super-athletes in
too many sports, and that these sports are not well comparable. (Consider e.g.
the challenges just within the bicycle sport with the Tour vs. a one day race,
time-trial races vs. races with competitors, and many variations.) The
differences are IMO much larger than the difference between middle and long
distance running.

(But it will be interesting to hear if someone else has more insights.)

Remarks:

1. Daehlie is nothing compared to Gunde Svan. ;-)

2. I agree with Geb being the distance GOAT at the moment; however, I strongly
suspect that at career's end Bekele will be ahead.

[parkerrclay]

I will add Svan and rower Steven Redgrave to the above list.

I never thought about Phelps or Thorpe but the 2nd article ranks them so I guess they can be included as well. I guess if they are being included, we could include El Guerrouj, Snell or Coe. I usually think of distance as 5k or more but I guess the mile distance requires as much endurance as a 200 meter or 400 meet swim. Or you could argue that Phelps individual swims are "distance" or maybe the combined effort of all them can qualify him as an endurance athlete. Any thoughts??

Here's an interesting article - http://trailrunningblog.com/2007/09/14/ ... -all-time/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6028 ... e-athletes

[gh]

Reinhold Messner

[bambam]

Finding this question very interesting, I spent a few minutes thinking it over.
Unfortunately, I soon became convinced that if there is an answer it is far
beyond me. The problem is that there are have been too many super-athletes in
too many sports, and that these sports are not well comparable. (Consider e.g.
the challenges just within the bicycle sport with the Tour vs. a one day race,
time-trial races vs. races with competitors, and many variations.) The
differences are IMO much larger than the difference between middle and long
distance running.

(But it will be interesting to hear if someone else has more insights.)

Remarks:

1. Daehlie is nothing compared to Gunde Svan. ;-)

2. I agree with Geb being the distance GOAT at the moment; however, I strongly
suspect that at career's end Bekele will be ahead.

Daehlie nothing compared to Svan??? Based on what? Some would have that statement in reverse.

[LopenUupunut]

Finding this question very interesting, I spent a few minutes thinking it over.
Unfortunately, I soon became convinced that if there is an answer it is far
beyond me. The problem is that there are have been too many super-athletes in
too many sports, and that these sports are not well comparable. (Consider e.g.
the challenges just within the bicycle sport with the Tour vs. a one day race,
time-trial races vs. races with competitors, and many variations.) The
differences are IMO much larger than the difference between middle and long
distance running.

(But it will be interesting to hear if someone else has more insights.)

Remarks:

1. Daehlie is nothing compared to Gunde Svan. ;-)

2. I agree with Geb being the distance GOAT at the moment; however, I strongly
suspect that at career's end Bekele will be ahead.

Daehlie nothing compared to Svan??? Based on what? Some would have that statement in reverse.

Dæhlie and Svan are both nothing compared to Juha Mieto because he had notable achievements in a non-skiing endurance sport as well :wink:

I think for example Eric Heiden's 5 golds at Lake Placid actually argue against him because they show he was even better in events that required less endurance and more pure speed...

[jazzcyclist]

I would put Merckx and Gebrselassie at the top of the heap. However, I'll admit that I don't know much about cross country skiing, rowing or mountain climbing. Both Merckx and Geb showed versatility over a wide range of distances throughout their career, not just one year like Eric Heiden did, and Heiden only acheived journeyman status as a cyclist. Ian Thorpe and Michael Phelps would have to prove their dominance in the longer distances in order to even be mentioned in the same breath with Geb and Merckx in my opinion. And triathletes, similar to heptathletes and decathletes (JJK excepted, and maybe Carro too depending on what happens in the future), are just people who can't cut it at the elite level in running, cycling or swimming.

[parkerrclay]

I dont think Heiden should be discounted for 'lack of timespan' - he set world records over a 5 year span and was a solid cyclist. He's probably more a middle endurance athlete than long endurance...but damn his credentials are awesome!

World records
Over the course of Heiden's career he skated 15 world records:

1500-m junior, 2:02.75 (18 January 1976, Madonna di Campiglio; beaten by Heiden)
5000-m junior, 7:30.23 (20 February 1977, Inzell; beaten by Heiden)
1500-m junior, 1:59.46 (20 February 1977; beaten by Aleksandr Klimov 24 March 1983)
Allround junior, 168.716 (19-20 February 1977, Inzell; beaten by Heiden)
3000-m junior, 4:16.2 (4 February 1977, Montreal; beaten by Tomas Gustafson 26 January 1980)
Allround junior, 166.584 (4-5 February 1977, Montreal; beaten by Aleksand Klimov 24 March 1983)
5000-m junior, 7:23.54 (5 February 1978, Montreal; beaten by Tomas Gustafson 27 January 1980)
3000-m, 4:07.00 (2 March 1978, Inzell; beaten by Heiden)
1000-m, 1:14.99 (12 March 1978, Savalen; beaten by Heiden)
1000-m, 1:13.60 (13 January 1980, Davos; beaten by Gaetan Boucher, 31 January 1981)
Allround, 162.973 (10-11 February 1980, Bislett, Oslo; beaten by Viktor Shasherin, 25-26 March 1983)
3000-m, 4:06.91 (18 March 1979, Savalen; beaten by Dmitri Ogloblin 28 March 1979)
Sprint, 150.250 (12-13 January 1980, Davos; beaten by Gaetan Boucher 30-31 January 1980)
1500-m, 1:54.79 (19 January 1980, Davos; beaten by Igor Zhelezovski 26 March 1983)
10,000-m, 14:28.13 (23 February 1980, Lake Placid; beaten by Dmitri Ogloblin 29 March 1980)

World Championships
Gold 1977 Heerenveen Allround
Gold 1978 Gothenburg Allround
Gold 1979 Oslo Allround
Gold 1977 Alkmaar Sprint
Gold 1978 Lake Placid Sprint
Gold 1979 Inzell Sprint
Gold 1980 West Allis Sprint
Silver 1980 Heerenveen Allround

[parkerrclay]

Olav Koss is another strong candidate that I forgot. Messner is a good one, GH, totally forgot about him!

[jazzcyclist]

Here's something to consider with Merckix. In 1972, he set the one-hour record with a mark of 49.431 km. 36 years later, the current world record (49.700 km), only exceeds his mark by 269 meters! I can't think of any other endurance record that has been exceeded by so little over that time span.

[parkerrclay]

I agree..Merckx deserves serious consideration for #1...What else did Mieto do?

[26mi235]

Here's something to consider with Merckix. In 1972, he set the one-hour record with a mark of 49.431 km. 36 years later, the current world record (49.700 km), only exceeds his mark by 269 meters! I can't think of any other endurance record that has been exceeded by so little over that time span.

It does require a footnote that the record now requires Merckx-era bike technology in the sense of no streamlining etc (which fits into the 'world best' category). Other sports have more advancement. However, not withstanding that footnote, I think the Merckx is still considered the best cyclist ever because he was both dominant (won about a third of his races, over total). However, he rode in an era with less competition and a much thinner professional ranks because the rewards were much less before TV dollars poured in (especially after two Americans started winning the Tour).

From Wikipedia, in addition to his Hour record (and note he was slugged by a French spectator in the mountains that did not want him to break Jacques Anquetil's record of 5 and the organizers kept him from racing the year before for the same reason. Unfortunately, a crash mid-career diminished his capabilities and caused him continual pain/discomfort.

* Most career victories by a professional cyclist: 525.
* Most victories in one season: 54.
* Most stage victories in the Tour de France: 34.
* Most stage victories in one Tour de France: 8, in 1970 and 1974 (shared with Charles Pélissier in 1930 and Freddy Maertens in 1976).
* Most days with the yellow jersey in the Tour de France: 96.
* The only cyclist to have won the yellow, green and red polka-dotted jersey in the same Tour de France (1969).
* Most victories in the Classic cycle races: 28.
* Most victories in one single Classic cycle race: 7 (in Milan-Sanremo).

[jazzcyclist]

It does require a footnote that the record now requires Merckx-era bike technology in the sense of no streamlining etc (which fits into the 'world best' category). Other sports have more advancement.

I think the UCI has the right idea in this area. The IAAF has done similar things by putting restrictions on the track surfaces, wind assistance limits and no world championships at high altitude. FINA and swimming fans don't seem to cherish world records, which is why world records have become meaningless in that sport.

[LopenUupunut]

I agree..Merckx deserves serious consideration for #1...What else did Mieto do?

He was OK at orienteering, and brought his team to an exchange in lead at the Jukola relay a couple times (including once winning his leg), but I'm quite ready to admit that's not enough to bring him anywhere near Dæhlie's level. I just brought his name up as a joke after imaginative brought up his own countryman

His orienteering prowess (considering its not getting his main training focus) hints that he might have been pretty good at XC running as well, but AFAIK he never tried that seriously.

[racewalker]

Here's an odd one that needs consideration: Yiannis Kouros