Going to college after 10th grade

[26mi235]

I was not mature enough to handle college efficiently until age 18, and while more academically advanced than most, think that academically it was good that I did not get accelerated. It did take me a while to adjust to HS because my elementary school did not prepare students as well as others in the district (e.g., they recommended to NO ONE take algebra in their freshman year because their students did not do well in it). I also started college thinking of being a math major, although it was until spring of my junior year when I officially abandoned that major - made easy to do when I took an econ class and knew I was in the right field.

My daughter is now in 7th grade and has been bored and under-challenged in math almost the entire school experience. In 6th grade she was in a supposedly 'most advanced of the normal math classes' (i.e., not in the accelerated class that was doing algebra). Finally, the last couple of sections they had pre-tests at the beginning and she tested out completely and they let her start on algebra on her own. She finished algebra over the summer and in now in the advanced math class, which is covering geometry now. So what is she going to do when she gets to HS; well she take algebra-trig in 8th grade and XXX? as a freshman and pre-calc/calc as a sophomore and then what for someone that is probably good in math but not a math major? It does seem that the geometry she now has is a bit easier than my 10th grade class, although the fellow students are a much better match for her. If she stops with math her sophomore year, she will get rusty in those tools by the time she really needs to use them in college and I do not think that she will be champing at the bit to go to college early.

[JRM]

So what is she going to do when she gets to HS;

There is a myriad of non-calculus math subjects that students can/should learn in high school. A REALLY good handle on algebra and geometry, linear algebra (matrices and vectors), functions, number systems (rational, real, transcendental, etc...), complex numbers, and so forth. Your daughter sounds like the exception to the rule, and would probably benefit from taking courses at the local college/university when she gets to HS so she doesn't get bored/rusty.

[Pego]

There is a myriad of non-calculus math subjects that students can/should learn in high school. A REALLY good handle on algebra and geometry, linear algebra (matrices and vectors), functions, number systems (rational, real, transcendental, etc...), complex numbers, and so forth.

This is exactly the kind of math I recall absorbing in the fifties' Czechoslovakia. The ceiling was quadratic equations, analytical geometry and a solid level trigonometry. We did not get to calculus, that was already part of a college curriculum.

Not that I retained too much of it .

[Marlow]

There is a myriad of non-calculus math subjects that students can/should learn in high school. A REALLY good handle on algebra and geometry, linear algebra (matrices and vectors), functions, number systems (rational, real, transcendental, etc...), complex numbers, and so forth.

We did cover all that in HS, before Calculus I and Differential Equations, and as long as it had real (in a humanities sense) numbers, I was fine. The problem arose in my first college class, Number Theory, which had NO numbers, just thetas and rhos and omicrons!

[tandfman]

Talk about retaining stuff like that, go up to the next 100 adults you see in the street downtown (any town) and ask them what a a subtrahend is. I'm pretty sure the vast majority will give you a blank stare, even though it's something that they were all taught at one time fairly early in their schooling.

And if you do not teach high school geometry, tell me the last time you used the word (or even saw the word) isosceles.

I am not saying that these are useless elements of one's education, but there really are some things that most of us can get through life without, even though they are regarded as essential parts of the curriculum in elementary and secondary schools.

[Marlow]

Talk about retaining stuff like that, go up to the next 100 adults you see in the street downtown (any town) and ask them what a a subtrahend is.. . . isosceles.

The nice thing about teaching English is that they may forget the term 'dangling modifier' or 'pronoun-antecedent disagreement', but if they don't learn the concept, they will be at a distinct disadvantage in the business world, if (when) they have to write clear effective communications. At the higher echelons there is a premium placed on good writing skills. Being a good writer says, "I'm intelligent, well-educated, and I care how others perceive me."

[tandfman]

I agree with all of that, of course.

[26mi235]

There is a myriad of non-calculus math subjects that students can/should learn in high school. A REALLY good handle on algebra and geometry, linear algebra (matrices and vectors), functions, number systems (rational, real, transcendental, etc...), complex numbers, and so forth.

We did cover all that in HS, before Calculus I and Differential Equations, and as long as it had real (in a humanities sense) numbers, I was fine. The problem arose in my first college class, Number Theory, which had NO numbers, just thetas and rhos and omicrons!

I think that unless the student is VERY GOOD (a real math whiz, as opposed to a very bright and motivated student), taking the above-HS-math classes in math will involve a more practical version of the courses and not the rigorous math of upper-class college math classes. As a result, the formality of classes like number theory is a very big jump and looks entirely different than what they had been doing before, whereas if they had taken Calc, DiffEq, etc in college they would have had more of a ramp up to the math theory. I felt like I did not have a real firm grasp on math until I took my grad micro and probability/stat courses. Suddenly things like 'sets of measure zero' [a lot of Analysis stuff, complex numbers,...] were very natural things that were important pieces of concepts in micro I was working at grasping.

By the way, I am not sure that my daughter is a natural for HS students taking college advanced math (i.e., beyond calc) because of the jump and the difference between math whiz and bright/motivated student.

[SQUACKEE]

Leaving high school after 2 years!? HA!....I went to high school for 7 years. bEAT tHat.

[Mennisco]

If my parents hadn't refused [repeatedly] to allow me to be accelerated, and if I hadn't gone through the silly 13 grades in Ontario, and if I hadn't become so bored with school by 7th grade that I'd remembered there might be a payoff, I'd have entered college by no later than end of 10th grade. Probably a good thing I didn't - I'm still too emotionally stunted to sit quietly when I often should.

:wink:

[Marlow]

I'm still too emotionally stunted to sit quietly when I often should.

You too?!

[lonewolf]

Leaving high school after 2 years!? HA!....I went to high school for 7 years. bEAT tHat.

I can't beat it Squak, but I knew a guy in Texas about thirty years ago who I believe can challege your academic longevity.

He played six years of HS football at various schools in the west Texas oil patch prior to WWII, (He was a Texas HS legend. Schools recruited his daddy to work in the oil fields around their town and nobody was fussy about counting years as long as they kept winning state championships) He played four years at West Point (which did not count against college eligibility in those days), four years at University of Texas and several years in the pros before going back to the oil patch where he started a successful service company.

[bambam]

Talk about retaining stuff like that, go up to the next 100 adults you see in the street downtown (any town) and ask them what a a subtrahend is. I'm pretty sure the vast majority will give you a blank stare, even though it's something that they were all taught at one time fairly early in their schooling.

Doh, I majored in math and I had to look up subtrahend. Not something we used much in college math courses.

[bambam]

Leaving high school after 2 years!? HA!....I went to high school for 7 years. bEAT tHat.

I can't beat it Squak, but I knew a guy in Texas about thirty years ago who I believe can challege your academic longevity.

He played six years of HS football at various schools in the west Texas oil patch prior to WWII, (He was a Texas HS legend. Schools recruited his daddy to work in the oil fields around their town and nobody was fussy about counting years as long as they kept winning state championships) He played four years at West Point (which did not count against college eligibility in those days), four years at University of Texas and several years in the pros before going back to the oil patch where he started a successful service company.

Who was that?

[lonewolf]

Leaving high school after 2 years!? HA!....I went to high school for 7 years. bEAT tHat.

I can't beat it Squak, but I knew a guy in Texas about thirty years ago who I believe can challege your academic longevity.

He played six years of HS football at various schools in the west Texas oil patch prior to WWII, (He was a Texas HS legend. Schools recruited his daddy to work in the oil fields around their town and nobody was fussy about counting years as long as they kept winning state championships) He played four years at West Point (which did not count against college eligibility in those days), four years at University of Texas and several years in the pros before going back to the oil patch where he started a successful service company.

Who was that?

bam, I am not comfortable posting his name without his permission but I believe he was for real. I knew him for several years and knew people who had known him way back when. His prowess and history were legend in the West Texas oil patch.
He was in his fifties when knew him and I swear, I believe he could crush a pair of pliers with his grip.