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  • #16
    Originally posted by observer2
    This was an easy one: BOLT IS NUMBER ONE IN THE WORLD

    http://www.aipsmedia.com/

    Happy to see that sport journalists from 96 countries voted for
    track&field athletes as number one: Bolt and Isinbayeva
    Great for our sport isn´t it?
    More impressive is that Phelps was voted second by an organization (AIPS) that doesn't have any United States representation.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by steve
      water polo, triathlon..........when looking at the poor tradition of great sprinters succeeding in other sports (yeah I know about Bob Hayes, but there are waaayyy more failures than successes), I think Phelps would be more likely to succeed in another sport than Bolt.
      Triathlon? Swimming is less than 1/6 the time of most triathlon races. Sure, he'll probably succeed in local amateur triathlons, where he can get a big jump in the swimming section, because most amateurs have swimming as their worst section by far. But it's a real stretch to think he'll do well enough in the cycling and running to be world class, considering that the cycling and swimming are 85-90% of the big races.

      However, as long as we're going to speculate about those two guys doing other sports, I'd say Bolt has much more speculative potential. A tall explosive guy like him could do very well in football, soccer, basketball, volleyball, or cricket (as a deadly fast bowler).

      Would he actually become world class or professional at any of them? We won't know for sure unless he tries. But the same thing goes for Phelps in other sports. He's not even a lock for water polo; sure, in high school the water polo team and swim team are usually made up of most of the same people, but at the international level the crossover isn't so reliable.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by sprintblox
        Originally posted by steve
        water polo, triathlon..........when looking at the poor tradition of great sprinters succeeding in other sports (yeah I know about Bob Hayes, but there are waaayyy more failures than successes), I think Phelps would be more likely to succeed in another sport than Bolt.
        Triathlon? Swimming is less than 1/6 the time of most triathlon races. Sure, he'll probably succeed in local amateur triathlons, where he can get a big jump in the swimming section, because most amateurs have swimming as their worst section by far. But it's a real stretch to think he'll do well enough in the cycling and running to be world class, considering that the cycling and swimming are 85-90% of the big races.

        However, as long as we're going to speculate about those two guys doing other sports, I'd say Bolt has much more speculative potential. A tall explosive guy like him could do very well in football, soccer, basketball, volleyball, or cricket (as a deadly fast bowler).

        Would he actually become world class or professional at any of them? We won't know for sure unless he tries. But the same thing goes for Phelps in other sports. He's not even a lock for water polo; sure, in high school the water polo team and swim team are usually made up of most of the same people, but at the international level the crossover isn't so reliable.
        The success of world class sprinters in other sports in recent years is not so good. Look at the recent efforts of Dwain Chambers. While I agree that Phelps is not likely to be world class at another sport, I don't think that Bolt is more likely to be successful in any other sport either.

        Comment


        • #19
          Who cares if they could be competitive in other sports?
          Does it matter?? :roll:

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by observer2
            Who cares if they could be competitive in other sports?
            Does it matter?? :roll:
            No, not at all. But it can be fun to speculate.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by steve
              The success of world class sprinters in other sports in recent years is not so good. Look at the recent efforts of Dwain Chambers.
              The success record of world class swimmers in other sports is worse. Especially if you step down from the Olympic and professional level and look at colleges ... sprinters are still getting on college football teams, with some even doing baseball or basketball or soccer. Swimmers? Water polo and that's it.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by observer2
                Who cares if they could be competitive in other sports?
                Does it matter?? :roll:
                Exactly. It's absolutely irrelevant to the question of whose Olympic achievement will be first duplicated or exceeded by another athlete.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by steve
                  More impressive is that Phelps was voted second by an organization (AIPS) that doesn't have any United States representation.
                  How much Jamaican representation does it have?
                  Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by sprintblox
                    Originally posted by steve
                    The success of world class sprinters in other sports in recent years is not so good. Look at the recent efforts of Dwain Chambers.
                    The success record of world class swimmers in other sports is worse. Especially if you step down from the Olympic and professional level and look at colleges ... sprinters are still getting on college football teams, with some even doing baseball or basketball or soccer. Swimmers? Water polo and that's it.
                    Other than Trindon Holliday, what world class sprinters are playing those sports at college? They maybe could do so easier than a swimmer because of the running component involved involved in those sports. Of the swimming based sports available to him (I guess just water polo) I have no reason to believe that Phelps couldn't do as well as the average multiple-gold-medalist-world-record-holding-sprinter could at a running based sport other than T&F.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Powell
                      Originally posted by steve
                      More impressive is that Phelps was voted second by an organization (AIPS) that doesn't have any United States representation.
                      How much Jamaican representation does it have?
                      It looks like all the Caribbean nations are represented.

                      I don't think there's a conspiracy against Phelps or for Bolt. I just think that if the US had representation Phelps would have gotten more votes.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by steve
                        Other than Trindon Holliday, what world class sprinters are playing those sports at college?
                        Other than Holliday and Demps, what world class sprinters are still in college, period?

                        Rewind a few years, and there's X-man, Leonard Scott, John Capel, who all were on good college football teams.

                        Go back a little further, and there's Michael Bates, James Jett, Sam Graddy, and Willie Gault who all competed in T&F at the World Championships or Olympics and played in the NFL.

                        And the above names are not an exhaustive list; that's just who immediately came to mind without doing more research.

                        Step down a notch or two from "world class sprinter", and you'll find dozens if not hundreds of sprinters who are on their college team for baseball or football or soccer or basketball in addition to track.
                        They maybe could do so easier than a swimmer because of the running component involved involved in those sports.
                        True, but that's kind of the point; running is more useful for other sports than swimming. Running is also more useful for other sports than hitting a tennis ball, or doing multiple back flips, or rowing a kayak, etc.
                        Of the swimming based sports available to him (I guess just water polo) I have no reason to believe that Phelps couldn't do as well as the average multiple-gold-medalist-world-record-holding-sprinter could at a running based sport other than T&F.
                        Maybe, but I have no reason to believe he would do better either. And the running guy still has more options outside of his primary sport.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by sprintblox
                          Originally posted by steve
                          Other than Trindon Holliday, what world class sprinters are playing those sports at college?
                          Other than Holliday and Demps, what world class sprinters are still in college, period?

                          Rewind a few years, and there's X-man, Leonard Scott, John Capel, who all were on good college football teams.

                          Go back a little further, and there's Michael Bates, James Jett, Sam Graddy, and Willie Gault who all competed in T&F at the World Championships or Olympics and played in the NFL.

                          And the above names are not an exhaustive list; that's just who immediately came to mind without doing more research.

                          Step down a notch or two from "world class sprinter", and you'll find dozens if not hundreds of sprinters who are on their college team for baseball or football or soccer or basketball in addition to track.
                          They maybe could do so easier than a swimmer because of the running component involved involved in those sports.
                          True, but that's kind of the point; running is more useful for other sports than swimming. Running is also more useful for other sports than hitting a tennis ball, or doing multiple back flips, or rowing a kayak, etc.
                          [quote:3iax56un]Of the swimming based sports available to him (I guess just water polo) I have no reason to believe that Phelps couldn't do as well as the average multiple-gold-medalist-world-record-holding-sprinter could at a running based sport other than T&F.
                          Maybe, but I have no reason to believe he would do better either. And the running guy still has more options outside of his primary sport.[/quote:3iax56un]

                          But then none of those are arguments for Bolt being more deserving of the greatest Olympian of 2008 accolades. Similar arguments were used against Phelps achievement (easier for him to get more medals because swimming has more opportunities).

                          You make a lot of good points though, and I suppose we could go around and around and pick apart each other's arguments. For me it simply comes down to being able to get ready for that many finals in that short a time and to beat people who were so much more focused on fewer events (including the preparation for the feat and the luck involved as well) that makes Phelps performance at the Olympics the best ever.

                          As I've posted before, though, Bolt's 100 and 200 are, for me, the top 2 olympic performances I've ever seen (on tape delay or otherwise), and I'm hopeful he'll do even more in London (after all I am a track fan)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by steve
                            Originally posted by observer2
                            This was an easy one: BOLT IS NUMBER ONE IN THE WORLD

                            http://www.aipsmedia.com/

                            Happy to see that sport journalists from 96 countries voted for
                            track&field athletes as number one: Bolt and Isinbayeva
                            Great for our sport isn´t it?
                            More impressive is that Phelps was voted second by an organization (AIPS) that doesn't have any United States representation.
                            if that is correct, then phelps wouda swamped the vote if american journos were present as bolt won by a small margin in their absence :

                            1 - Usain Bolt 1673 points (32.5%)

                            2 - Michael Phelps 1557 (30.24%)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Paul Henry
                              As I would always maintain; I just don't give much praise to the redundant variations in the different swimming disciplines so, at the end of the day there is not much athletic prowess to be demonstarted in winning 8 golds competing in these events. However, setting world records in three sprint dsciplines (especially the 9.69 first time sub 9.7 legal clocking) will always register highly in my book especially in the fashion they were done and the circumstances surrounding them.
                              seeing as the youngest of the swimming strokes has been around for 50y in og, your statement is nonsense in wider world of sport

                              3 sprint disciplines ?

                              i hardly call ability to do 100/200/relay a great varied talent - most every sprinter tries it & in fact last 3 globals have been 100/200 doubles ( with coupla relays ) - if you excel at either 100 or 200, you have great shot at the other & relay is no brainer with decent practice

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by steve
                                But then none of those are arguments for Bolt being more deserving of the greatest Olympian of 2008 accolades.
                                I didn't say they were. Potential in other sports is an irrelevant side-track to this thread.

                                Similar arguments were used against Phelps achievement (easier for him to get more medals because swimming has more opportunities).
                                However, that is not irrelevant, because then we're talking about medals within the same sport, not potential in other sports. Remember, Phelps got 4 of his golds by swimming the same 200m distance, in different ways. Take away all strokes except the freestyle, take away the 4x200, and how on earth does Phelps get 8 golds? Or even 4 or 5?

                                But again, this thread is not for arguing whose achievement is of more merit. The question is whose achievement will be duplicated or exceeded by somebody else. On that point, even I think that Phelps record of 8 golds will remain unequaled for a longer time than Bolt's 3 gold + 3 WRs on the track.

                                Comment

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