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  • #16
    You did indeed imply that. Why cite box-office figures unless you believe they are somehow indicative of quality?

    Just because the public is undiscerning (or distributors don't think consumers want serious films) should not preclude recognition of the quality of such films by the industry.

    Where's your list of better best film options?

    Apropos of your Dodgeball comment, I must say I was gobsmacked (and delighted) to see Downey's Tropic Thunder performance get a nod for Best Supporting Actor...

    Comment


    • #17
      I agree with everyone else here (apart from Marlow, of course). If Oscar nominations were given out on box office figures alone, then we should all be expecting Mamma Mia to clean up at the awards. But thankfully they're not!

      I was just thinking recently about how many superb films are out at the moment 2008/2009 is shaping up to be a great era of film making. Slumdog Millionnaire, The Reader, The Wrestler and Changeling are excellent flicks. I'm also looking forward to seeing Revolutionary Road, Benjamin Button and Doubt. Dark Knight was good (although I did fall asleep for some of it), and Ledger did get a best supporting actor nomination, didn't he? He was undoubtedly the best thing in that film - I'm not sure I'd personally stretch to nominate that film in any of the other categories.

      Loads of the oscar-winning films in the past have not necessarily been mega hits at the box office (La Vie En Rose, Michael Clayton, No Country For Old Men, There Will be Blood, Little Miss Sunshine, Pan's Labyrinth, Fargo, etc). The masses, in general, prefer the action/rom com/simple comedy genres - thank God they don't base the nominations on box office sales!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by gh
        Yeah, I agree. Hopefully next year the Nobel people will realize the error of their ways and give a lifetime achievement prize in literature for Stan Lee's body of work on Spiderman, Incredible Hulk, Fantastic 4, et al.

        C'mon, Dark Knight was absolutely unwatchable; I turned it off after 15 minutes.
        At last!!!!

        You're the first person I've found who thinks the same as i do. TDK was a completely incoherent mess. I had absolutely no idea what was going on most of the time and the only reason Heath has been lauded so much is because he croaked.

        It was actually in my Oscar predictions but i'm happy to have got it wrong if it means this overhyped rubbish doesn't get any Oscar love.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Flumpy
          the only reason Heath has been lauded so much is because he croaked.
          OK, now I KNOW I'm on the right side of this debate!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by AS
            On your grounds Grammies should simply go to the biggest singles/albums...
            In large part that is indeed the case and why i havent watched the Grappies in 30 years while devoting most of my life to writing and listening to "music".
            phsstt!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Flumpy
              At last!!!!

              You're the first person I've found who thinks the same as i do. TDK was a completely incoherent mess. I had absolutely no idea what was going on most of the time and the only reason Heath has been lauded so much is because he croaked.

              It was actually in my Oscar predictions but i'm happy to have got it wrong if it means this overhyped rubbish doesn't get any Oscar love.
              Add me to the list. I turned it off after 90 minutes as it was so yawn-inducing and watched the remainder about three days later when I remembered it was still in my player. What a boring and pointless movie. However, I thought Ledger was very good....

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              • #22
                Originally posted by marknhj
                What a boring and pointless movie.
                I am both humbled and honored to be among such discerning palates. Your aesthetic sensibilities are indeed beyond reproach and reflect a truly refined artistic temperament. I bow to your exalted station and superior critical skills. I most abjectly apologize for my own plebian, philistine, vulgar, base, crude Weltanschauung and beg your forgiveness for sullying your esteemed self with by own deeply flawed being. Or as we say vernacularly . . . whatever! :roll:

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                • #23
                  There are 2 kinds of movies bascially that i care about...good movies and lousy movies. Of these 2 classifications are movies of every kind imaginable. Love stories, war, little movies, big movies, animated, period pieces, ensemble, scary ect ect. The fact that a movie is made about Batman is meaningless to me, is it good?

                  We all enjoy hearty meals and we all enjoy snacks. When your enjoying chips with a onion dip your not thinking, damn this isnt as good as a steak. Batman is more of a snack and Saving Private Ryan is a big ole feast. I enjoyed both and thought they were both well made and suceeded at what they were trying to do.

                  Its perfectly fine to not enjoy Batman but i dont think its fair to say its a bad movie. If you say the subject matter doesnt interest you then no one could agrue with that.
                  phsstt!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by SQUACKEE
                    Its perfectly fine to not enjoy Batman but i dont think its fair to say its a bad movie. If you say the subject matter doesnt interest you then no one could agrue with that.
                    Some people confuse movies about 'serious issues' as being 'good' movies. They think that a movie needs an 'important theme' to be good. That is no more true than the subject of a painting being significant to its merit. As an informed and 'serious' student of the cinema, I'm just saying that The Dark Knight was superbly crafted. Whether you like it or not is totally up to you. But I will take issue with the fact that it isn't an excellent movie (cf. Citizen Kane, which many people think is not that good).

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                    • #25
                      There's no confusion about "serious issues" here; it's about whether or not Dark Knight was a well-made movie with good acting. For me, at least there's no question it failed on both counts. Subject matter had nothing to do with it.

                      As Dennis Miller once said of Stallone, and I'll toss at Ledger on this one, "There's the quintessential thespian; he has all the range of a Daisy air-rifle."

                      I'd rate his work as slightly below Vin Diesel in The Chronicles Of Riddick which was a great bit of "non-serious" filmmaking in the whacked-out genre.

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                      • #26
                        I wanted to love The Dark Knight and thought I did after seeing it in the theater. Watched it again a few weeks ago and it did not hold up. There's so many gaps in the plot that you notice once you don't have to pay as close attention to keep up with the story.

                        Just a couple:
                        1. Where happened to the Joker go after he tossed Rachel off the roof? Did he just stay at the party and have a few cocktails?

                        2. Why does the note given to the judge in her car say "Look Up"? Is there some fancy new bomb that blows up when you shift your eyes skyward? Obviously there is. My theory is that her end was a bit too grisly for PG13 and they replaced it with an explosion but forgot to remove the lead up.

                        3. Did the Joker go to jail? Was he left hanging there? Did he escape?

                        4. Dent states he killed 2 or 3 more people than what is shown in the movie. Who were these extra dead people?

                        5. It's not much of an alibi, if 50-odd Russian ballerinas see your covert airplane pick you up from yacht-side.

                        6. The Joker gives a speech stating that he reacts and doesn't plan. Everything he does, kidnapping Rachel & Dent, the bank heist, getting captured to get near the Asian money launderer, blowing up the hospital, etc. all required massive amounts of planning. I guess this could've been in there to show he's a liar but more likely it was just a nice sounding speech that didn't fit the movie's reality.

                        etc.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cooter Brown
                          it was just a nice sounding speech that didn't fit the movie's reality.
                          The movie's reality? Isn't that an oxymoron?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cooter Brown
                            Just a couple:
                            1. Where happened to the Joker go after he tossed Rachel off the roof? Did he just stay at the party and have a few cocktails?
                            2. Why does the note given to the judge in her car say "Look Up"? Is there some fancy new bomb that blows up when you shift your eyes skyward? Obviously there is. My theory is that her end was a bit too grisly for PG13 and they replaced it with an explosion but forgot to remove the lead up.
                            3. Did the Joker go to jail? Was he left hanging there? Did he escape?
                            4. Dent states he killed 2 or 3 more people than what is shown in the movie. Who were these extra dead people?
                            5. It's not much of an alibi, if 50-odd Russian ballerinas see your covert airplane pick you up from yacht-side.
                            6. The Joker gives a speech stating that he reacts and doesn't plan. Everything he does, kidnapping Rachel & Dent, the bank heist, getting captured to get near the Asian money launderer, blowing up the hospital, etc. all required massive amounts of planning. I guess this could've been in there to show he's a liar but more likely it was just a nice sounding speech that didn't fit the movie's reality.
                            etc.
                            At the risk of taking a comic book too seriously (too late):
                            1. He left.
                            2. So the last thing she'd see was the roof caving her skull in.
                            3. Yes. No. No.
                            4. Unlucky people who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. (remember, he's a psycho killer by then)
                            5. Part of his flamboyant Bruce Wayne life-style. No alibi necessary.
                            6. The Joker is a pathological liar. He lied.
                            :roll:

                            P.S. Guess what movie won the 1976 Oscar for best picture? 1997? Go figger.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Marlow
                              ....
                              P.S. Guess what movie won the 1976 Oscar for best picture? 1997? Go figger.
                              On my personal rating scale, having seen them all, Rocky is the third worst Oscar winner, beating only the execrable Tom Jones and the pathetic Cimarron.

                              I was prepared to hate Titanic and put it off for almost a decade but I was pleasantly surprised. DiCaprio in anything instantly becomes most watchable.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cooter Brown
                                I wanted to love The Dark Knight and thought I did after seeing it in the theater. Watched it again a few weeks ago and it did not hold up. There's so many gaps in the plot that you notice once you don't have to pay as close attention to keep up with the story.

                                Just a couple:
                                1. Where happened to the Joker go after he tossed Rachel off the roof? Did he just stay at the party and have a few cocktails?

                                2. Why does the note given to the judge in her car say "Look Up"? Is there some fancy new bomb that blows up when you shift your eyes skyward? Obviously there is. My theory is that her end was a bit too grisly for PG13 and they replaced it with an explosion but forgot to remove the lead up.

                                3. Did the Joker go to jail? Was he left hanging there? Did he escape?

                                4. Dent states he killed 2 or 3 more people than what is shown in the movie. Who were these extra dead people?

                                5. It's not much of an alibi, if 50-odd Russian ballerinas see your covert airplane pick you up from yacht-side.

                                6. The Joker gives a speech stating that he reacts and doesn't plan. Everything he does, kidnapping Rachel & Dent, the bank heist, getting captured to get near the Asian money launderer, blowing up the hospital, etc. all required massive amounts of planning. I guess this could've been in there to show he's a liar but more likely it was just a nice sounding speech that didn't fit the movie's reality.

                                etc.
                                So true.

                                I also wondered.


                                1 - Why does Batman have such a stupid voice?

                                2 - Seeing as none of them have any 'super powers' how come everybody seems to be able to jump of tall building, survive explosions, appear out of nowhere etc

                                3 - Why are the police so completely incompetent. They have The Joker in prison so how does he manage to not only escape but lay waste to the whole police headquarters whilst doing so? How does he manage to appear in the hospital with a full face of makeup and go under cover as a doctor when he's the most wanted man in the city? How does he manage to rig up the whole hospital with bombs despite only having escaped a few hours earlier.? How does he know which boats are going to be used to evacuate prisoners? How is this one mortal man able to bamboozle the whole of the US armed forces?

                                4 - Who is he? Where did he come from? Why is he doing any of this? THe Joker has absolutely no motivation for doing what he does. Or at least none that we're told about!!!

                                5 - WTF was the Harvey Dent/ 2 Face nonsense about? Who on earth after getting blow up and losing half their face goes on a revenge spree??? I think he would have had trouble getting to the toilet without help.

                                Terrible film. I sat their aghast that this was the sort of cack was what passes for top rate entertainment these days. Despite being a cinema obsessive I only saw 2 films that were released between April and October this year. TDK and Mama Mia. Both execrable. I've learnt my lesson.

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