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  • #16
    Originally posted by Texas
    Nope, restraint of free trade. I agree some rookies are overpaid but what if a stud is permanently disabled before he has a chance to prove himself? If the owners are willing to risk big money, power to 'em.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

    The NFL shouldn't have to reward a player for what he did in college. Yes the kid showed potential as a collegiate athlete. That's as far as it needs to go. The kid doesn't have to play in the NFL, that's his choice and he knows the nature of the beast so he'll have to roll the dice himself. Yes injury is part of the deal. If he signs on with a team he agreed to take his chances.

    The NFL needs to have a certain rate per round. Yes a first rounder will get more than a second rounder and so on. The first pick won't however make more than the last pick in the 1st round. The way it's being done today is totally ridiculous. Paying guys who haven't done a thing vs NFL competition as much as they do is crazy.

    Imagine a 10 year vet watching some kid who hasn't done a thing signing for more than he's making, as he sits there with a reconstructed knee, a shoulder out of wack, a broken nose, an ankle that will never be the same and a finger twice the size it ought to be,

    Something is broke and needs fixing.
    Shouldn't draft picks be viewed as an investment risk?

    Sometimes owners get far more than they paid for.

    In fact, I'd argue that happens far more often because lower draft picks are often hungrier.
    The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: 10 ways to make football better

      Originally posted by EPelle
      Originally posted by Texas
      5.All NCAA players will do 4 years at the college of their choice. Yep, a contract is signed. Without the school the athlete had no platform to perform upon. Sounds fair to me. If a guy quits school, he cannot enter the NFL for two years.
      Texas, two points/questions: 1) How do you account for the military reserve who may get a call of duty, and returns state-side to head straight to the NFL? Similarly, those who do mormon missions and may opt to hit the NFL ranks instead of returning to NCAA two years older, but only one grade advanced? 2) What happens when the university shuts down the team three years into the athlete's contract?
      Nobody has to play in the NFL. If the NFL is something you plan on doing you'd better not head off to BYU. Obviously a school shutting down/military service would get special treatment. Yes like everything else there will be grey areas.

      The deal is trying to keep an athlete in school and out of the NFL until after he graduates. Like everything else there will be circumstances/situations to consider. We do need a system in place that does make an attempt to have a player do his four years at USC, Michigan etc. A kid would be what..22...after 4 years of college? He needed to turn pro at 20/21....why?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Marlow
        Originally posted by jhc68
        Let's alter the offside rule to resemble the futbol offside: If a receiver gets behind the cornerback before the ball is thrown the play is blown dead.
        I know that infidels don't understand soccer's off-side rule, but without it, the forwards would just camp out in the goal and every play would be a long-ball into the box. The cognate in football would be that there is no off-side at the snap and receivers could just stand in the end zone for every play. You really want a Hail Mary every play?
        This is a bad analogy since football doesn't involve non-stop action like soccer does. Whenever there's a change of posession in football, there's an official timeout while the two teams change from offense to defense and vice versa. Furthermore, I wouldn't advocate soccer completely eliminating the offsides rule, but I think the game would be more interesting if there was no offsides after your team had posession of the ball. That way, players couldn't camp out at the goal, but when there's a change of posession, you'd have a footrace to the other end of the field to try and get ahead of the defenders, similar to the fast-break in basketball. As for what jhc68 proposes for football. do we really want to see the game regress a hundred years back to the pre-Knute Rockne days? :roll: Because that's what would happen if defenses could put eleven people on the line of scrimmage without fear getting beat by the long ball.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: 10 ways to make football better

          Originally posted by Texas
          Originally posted by EPelle
          Originally posted by Texas
          5.All NCAA players will do 4 years at the college of their choice. Yep, a contract is signed. Without the school the athlete had no platform to perform upon. Sounds fair to me. If a guy quits school, he cannot enter the NFL for two years.
          Texas, two points/questions: 1) How do you account for the military reserve who may get a call of duty, and returns state-side to head straight to the NFL? Similarly, those who do mormon missions and may opt to hit the NFL ranks instead of returning to NCAA two years older, but only one grade advanced? 2) What happens when the university shuts down the team three years into the athlete's contract?
          Nobody has to play in the NFL. If the NFL is something you plan on doing you'd better not head off to BYU. Obviously a school shutting down/military service would get special treatment. Yes like everything else there will be grey areas.

          The deal is trying to keep an athlete in school and out of the NFL until after he graduates. Like everything else there will be circumstances/situations to consider. We do need a system in place that does make an attempt to have a player do his four years at USC. Michigan etc.
          Why make football players stay in college if they have the ability to compete effectively?
          The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by TrackDaddy
            Originally posted by Texas
            Nope, restraint of free trade. I agree some rookies are overpaid but what if a stud is permanently disabled before he has a chance to prove himself? If the owners are willing to risk big money, power to 'em.
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

            The NFL shouldn't have to reward a player for what he did in college. Yes the kid showed potential as a collegiate athlete. That's as far as it needs to go. The kid doesn't have to play in the NFL, that's his choice and he knows the nature of the beast so he'll have to roll the dice himself. Yes injury is part of the deal. If he signs on with a team he agreed to take his chances.

            The NFL needs to have a certain rate per round. Yes a first rounder will get more than a second rounder and so on. The first pick won't however make more than the last pick in the 1st round. The way it's being done today is totally ridiculous. Paying guys who haven't done a thing vs NFL competition as much as they do is crazy.

            Imagine a 10 year vet watching some kid who hasn't done a thing signing for more than he's making, as he sits there with a reconstructed knee, a shoulder out of wack, a broken nose, an ankle that will never be the same and a finger twice the size it ought to be,

            Something is broke and needs fixing.
            Shouldn't draft picks be viewed as an investment risk?

            Sometimes owners get far more than they paid for.

            In fact, I'd argue that happens far more often because lower draft picks are often hungrier.
            Should kids who have done..0...on an NFL field make more $$$$$$$ than a guy who has? The NFL is a whole different deal than what these guys saw in college. The first thing you notice is the speed of the game, Soooooo much faster! Paying a colege player big bucks based on how he did in the slower game vs smaller slower athletes isn't right. You pay him the big bucks...after..he has shown he can hang in the big time.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Texas
              Originally posted by jazzcyclist
              Originally posted by Texas
              Originally posted by Marlow
              Interesting list except #5. College coaches have been known to lie and be jerks. Athletes need an out from a truly bad situation.
              I have a boss who is a jerk so do I just quit?
              In the real world you have that option.

              Originally posted by Texas
              These college kids will meet jerks in their life, it's simply part of it. The school is giving the kid a place to show what they can do, without that chance there is no NFL contract. There needs to be some agreement that gurantees "both" parties will benifit from the connection. The school signed the kid because they needed him, the kid signed on because he needed a place to play. That's a ...deal. So make the...deal..a two way street instead of what we are seeing today.

              If we had a situation where a kid was really all that disappointed with the deal and felt he had been lied to and mistreated, then the NCAA could look at things and make some ruling.
              Furthermore, making the player who leaves a school wait two years before he can enter the NFL draft would involve collusion between the NCAA and the NFL The current rule is part of the collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and the Players' Union and is a simple age requirement. It has nothing with the relationship between football players and their college coaches.
              Aparently you're missing the point. Well aware of how things currently are..ok? I'm talking about making some changes and yes we do see that happening in both college/pro football. So it's not unrealistic to talk about more changes. Changes that would in my opinion make more sense than what we see today.

              One example...

              Alex Smith has done what as a 49er? Try...nothing! In college he played at Utah, now what collegiate powers does Utah play? So a guy looking good vs.......... See how ridiculous the $$$$$ he got for signing with the Niners was. Now they have reconstructed his contract because they blew it.
              How would Alex Smith have been affected by your rule changes? Are you saying that players from non-BCS conferences wouldn't be eligible for the NFL draft?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Texas
                Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                Originally posted by Texas
                Originally posted by Marlow
                Interesting list except #5. College coaches have been known to lie and be jerks. Athletes need an out from a truly bad situation.
                I have a boss who is a jerk so do I just quit?
                In the real world you have that option.

                Originally posted by Texas
                These college kids will meet jerks in their life, it's simply part of it. The school is giving the kid a place to show what they can do, without that chance there is no NFL contract. There needs to be some agreement that gurantees "both" parties will benifit from the connection. The school signed the kid because they needed him, the kid signed on because he needed a place to play. That's a ...deal. So make the...deal..a two way street instead of what we are seeing today.

                If we had a situation where a kid was really all that disappointed with the deal and felt he had been lied to and mistreated, then the NCAA could look at things and make some ruling.
                Furthermore, making the player who leaves a school wait two years before he can enter the NFL draft would involve collusion between the NCAA and the NFL The current rule is part of the collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and the Players' Union and is a simple age requirement. It has nothing with the relationship between football players and their college coaches.
                Aparently you're missing the point. Well aware of how things currently are..ok? I'm talking about making some changes and yes we do see that happening in both college/pro football. So it's not unrealistic to talk about more changes. Changes that would in my opinion make more sense than what we see today.

                One example...

                Alex Smith has done what as a 49er? Try...nothing! In college he played at Utah, now what collegiate powers does Utah play? So a guy looking good vs.......... See how ridiculous the $$$$$ he got for signing with the Niners was. Now they have reconstructed his contract because they blew it.
                You know....

                The 49ers didn't have to draft Alex Smith.

                They had a lot of options including trading the pick for proven players.
                The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: 10 ways to make football better

                  Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                  Originally posted by Texas
                  Originally posted by EPelle
                  Originally posted by Texas
                  5.All NCAA players will do 4 years at the college of their choice. Yep, a contract is signed. Without the school the athlete had no platform to perform upon. Sounds fair to me. If a guy quits school, he cannot enter the NFL for two years.
                  Texas, two points/questions: 1) How do you account for the military reserve who may get a call of duty, and returns state-side to head straight to the NFL? Similarly, those who do mormon missions and may opt to hit the NFL ranks instead of returning to NCAA two years older, but only one grade advanced? 2) What happens when the university shuts down the team three years into the athlete's contract?
                  Nobody has to play in the NFL. If the NFL is something you plan on doing you'd better not head off to BYU. Obviously a school shutting down/military service would get special treatment. Yes like everything else there will be grey areas.

                  The deal is trying to keep an athlete in school and out of the NFL until after he graduates. Like everything else there will be circumstances/situations to consider. We do need a system in place that does make an attempt to have a player do his four years at USC. Michigan etc.
                  Why make football players stay in college if they have the ability to compete effectively?
                  That's not really what I'm saying. I'm talking about if a school gives an athlete the place to shine, he owes them 4 years of his time. The school can depend on him for 4 years.

                  There are three things involved here. The athlete, the school and the NFL. Without a school the athlete is a ....who? Without the athletes the school suffers. Without the college athlete there is no NFL. So there needs to be some system that takes all that into account. Yes the school couldn't care less about the NFL.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Texas
                    Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                    Originally posted by Texas
                    Nope, restraint of free trade. I agree some rookies are overpaid but what if a stud is permanently disabled before he has a chance to prove himself? If the owners are willing to risk big money, power to 'em.
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

                    The NFL shouldn't have to reward a player for what he did in college. Yes the kid showed potential as a collegiate athlete. That's as far as it needs to go. The kid doesn't have to play in the NFL, that's his choice and he knows the nature of the beast so he'll have to roll the dice himself. Yes injury is part of the deal. If he signs on with a team he agreed to take his chances.

                    The NFL needs to have a certain rate per round. Yes a first rounder will get more than a second rounder and so on. The first pick won't however make more than the last pick in the 1st round. The way it's being done today is totally ridiculous. Paying guys who haven't done a thing vs NFL competition as much as they do is crazy.

                    Imagine a 10 year vet watching some kid who hasn't done a thing signing for more than he's making, as he sits there with a reconstructed knee, a shoulder out of wack, a broken nose, an ankle that will never be the same and a finger twice the size it ought to be,

                    Something is broke and needs fixing.
                    Shouldn't draft picks be viewed as an investment risk?

                    Sometimes owners get far more than they paid for.

                    In fact, I'd argue that happens far more often because lower draft picks are often hungrier.
                    Should kids who have done..0...on an NFL field make more $$$$$$$ than a guy who has? The NFL is a whole different deal than what these guys saw in college. The first thing you notice is the speed of the game, Soooooo much faster! Paying a colege player big bucks based on how he did in the slower game vs smaller slower athletes isn't right. You pay him the big bucks...after..he has shown he can hang in the big time.
                    What about players like Matt Ryan, LaDanian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson, for example?

                    They were among the best players in the league from the moment they stepped on the field.
                    The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      In the paper this morning is a discussion of the NFL going to an 18-game season, presumably getting rid of 2 pre-season games. Your plan is working, Texas! :twisted:

                      18 games? The methodical destruction of human bodies continues . . .

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: 10 ways to make football better

                        Originally posted by Texas
                        Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                        Originally posted by Texas
                        Originally posted by EPelle
                        Originally posted by Texas
                        5.All NCAA players will do 4 years at the college of their choice. Yep, a contract is signed. Without the school the athlete had no platform to perform upon. Sounds fair to me. If a guy quits school, he cannot enter the NFL for two years.
                        Texas, two points/questions: 1) How do you account for the military reserve who may get a call of duty, and returns state-side to head straight to the NFL? Similarly, those who do mormon missions and may opt to hit the NFL ranks instead of returning to NCAA two years older, but only one grade advanced? 2) What happens when the university shuts down the team three years into the athlete's contract?
                        Nobody has to play in the NFL. If the NFL is something you plan on doing you'd better not head off to BYU. Obviously a school shutting down/military service would get special treatment. Yes like everything else there will be grey areas.

                        The deal is trying to keep an athlete in school and out of the NFL until after he graduates. Like everything else there will be circumstances/situations to consider. We do need a system in place that does make an attempt to have a player do his four years at USC. Michigan etc.
                        Why make football players stay in college if they have the ability to compete effectively?
                        That's not really what I'm saying. I'm talking about if a school gives an athlete the place to shine, he owes them 4 years of his time. The school can depend on him for 4 years.

                        There are three things involved here. The athlete, the school and the NFL. Without a school the athlete is a ....who? Without the athletes the school suffers. Without the college athlete there is no NFL. So there needs to be some system that takes all that into account. Yes the school couldn't care less about the NFL.
                        What if the kid couldnt compete academically for 4 years?

                        If the kid leaves the school then the agreement is off and he's free to pursue other endeavors (NFL).
                        The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                          Originally posted by Texas
                          Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                          Originally posted by Texas
                          Originally posted by Marlow
                          Interesting list except #5. College coaches have been known to lie and be jerks. Athletes need an out from a truly bad situation.
                          I have a boss who is a jerk so do I just quit?
                          In the real world you have that option.

                          Originally posted by Texas
                          These college kids will meet jerks in their life, it's simply part of it. The school is giving the kid a place to show what they can do, without that chance there is no NFL contract. There needs to be some agreement that gurantees "both" parties will benifit from the connection. The school signed the kid because they needed him, the kid signed on because he needed a place to play. That's a ...deal. So make the...deal..a two way street instead of what we are seeing today.

                          If we had a situation where a kid was really all that disappointed with the deal and felt he had been lied to and mistreated, then the NCAA could look at things and make some ruling.
                          Furthermore, making the player who leaves a school wait two years before he can enter the NFL draft would involve collusion between the NCAA and the NFL The current rule is part of the collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and the Players' Union and is a simple age requirement. It has nothing with the relationship between football players and their college coaches.
                          Aparently you're missing the point. Well aware of how things currently are..ok? I'm talking about making some changes and yes we do see that happening in both college/pro football. So it's not unrealistic to talk about more changes. Changes that would in my opinion make more sense than what we see today.

                          One example...

                          Alex Smith has done what as a 49er? Try...nothing! In college he played at Utah, now what collegiate powers does Utah play? So a guy looking good vs.......... See how ridiculous the $$$$$ he got for signing with the Niners was. Now they have reconstructed his contract because they blew it.
                          How would Alex Smith have been affected by your rule changes? Are you saying that players from non-BCS conferences wouldn't be eligible for the NFL draft?
                          You must have missed the part about all first rounders making whatever the base salary is for first rounders. Meaning there wouldn't have been some big $$$$ deal with Smith. Where did you get the impression there could be an NFL without the Walter Paytons. Jerry Rices, Big Bens, "Mean" Joe Greens, Randy Mosss? Where did I give that impression?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                            Originally posted by Texas
                            Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                            Originally posted by Texas
                            Nope, restraint of free trade. I agree some rookies are overpaid but what if a stud is permanently disabled before he has a chance to prove himself? If the owners are willing to risk big money, power to 'em.
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

                            The NFL shouldn't have to reward a player for what he did in college. Yes the kid showed potential as a collegiate athlete. That's as far as it needs to go. The kid doesn't have to play in the NFL, that's his choice and he knows the nature of the beast so he'll have to roll the dice himself. Yes injury is part of the deal. If he signs on with a team he agreed to take his chances.

                            The NFL needs to have a certain rate per round. Yes a first rounder will get more than a second rounder and so on. The first pick won't however make more than the last pick in the 1st round. The way it's being done today is totally ridiculous. Paying guys who haven't done a thing vs NFL competition as much as they do is crazy.

                            Imagine a 10 year vet watching some kid who hasn't done a thing signing for more than he's making, as he sits there with a reconstructed knee, a shoulder out of wack, a broken nose, an ankle that will never be the same and a finger twice the size it ought to be,

                            Something is broke and needs fixing.
                            Shouldn't draft picks be viewed as an investment risk?

                            Sometimes owners get far more than they paid for.

                            In fact, I'd argue that happens far more often because lower draft picks are often hungrier.
                            Should kids who have done..0...on an NFL field make more $$$$$$$ than a guy who has? The NFL is a whole different deal than what these guys saw in college. The first thing you notice is the speed of the game, Soooooo much faster! Paying a colege player big bucks based on how he did in the slower game vs smaller slower athletes isn't right. You pay him the big bucks...after..he has shown he can hang in the big time.
                            What about players like Matt Ryan, LaDanian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson, for example?

                            They were among the best players in the league from the moment they stepped on the field.
                            Then there's....

                            Heath Schuler
                            Ryan Leaf
                            Curtis Enis
                            Ron Dayne
                            KiJana Carter
                            Rashan Salaam
                            Bobby Humphrey
                            Brian Bosworth
                            Cedric Benson

                            .....etc etc etc etc etc etc....................

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Marlow
                              In the paper this morning is a discussion of the NFL going to an 18-game season, presumably getting rid of 2 pre-season games. Your plan is working, Texas! :twisted:

                              18 games? The methodical destruction of human bodies continues . . .
                              If they're going to play games, they might as well count.
                              The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Texas
                                Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                                Originally posted by Texas
                                Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                                Originally posted by Texas
                                Nope, restraint of free trade. I agree some rookies are overpaid but what if a stud is permanently disabled before he has a chance to prove himself? If the owners are willing to risk big money, power to 'em.
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

                                The NFL shouldn't have to reward a player for what he did in college. Yes the kid showed potential as a collegiate athlete. That's as far as it needs to go. The kid doesn't have to play in the NFL, that's his choice and he knows the nature of the beast so he'll have to roll the dice himself. Yes injury is part of the deal. If he signs on with a team he agreed to take his chances.

                                The NFL needs to have a certain rate per round. Yes a first rounder will get more than a second rounder and so on. The first pick won't however make more than the last pick in the 1st round. The way it's being done today is totally ridiculous. Paying guys who haven't done a thing vs NFL competition as much as they do is crazy.

                                Imagine a 10 year vet watching some kid who hasn't done a thing signing for more than he's making, as he sits there with a reconstructed knee, a shoulder out of wack, a broken nose, an ankle that will never be the same and a finger twice the size it ought to be,

                                Something is broke and needs fixing.
                                Shouldn't draft picks be viewed as an investment risk?

                                Sometimes owners get far more than they paid for.

                                In fact, I'd argue that happens far more often because lower draft picks are often hungrier.
                                Should kids who have done..0...on an NFL field make more $$$$$$$ than a guy who has? The NFL is a whole different deal than what these guys saw in college. The first thing you notice is the speed of the game, Soooooo much faster! Paying a colege player big bucks based on how he did in the slower game vs smaller slower athletes isn't right. You pay him the big bucks...after..he has shown he can hang in the big time.
                                What about players like Matt Ryan, LaDanian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson, for example?

                                They were among the best players in the league from the moment they stepped on the field.
                                Then there's....

                                Heath Schuler
                                Ryan Leaf
                                Curtis Enis
                                Ron Dayne
                                KiJana Carter
                                Rashan Salaam
                                Bobby Humphrey
                                Brian Bosworth
                                Cedric Benson

                                .....etc etc etc etc etc etc....................
                                Like I said, investments have risks.

                                Casinos stay in business because you lose more than you win.
                                The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

                                Comment

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