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  • #31
    Re: 10 ways to make football better

    [quote=TrackDaddy]
    Originally posted by Texas
    Originally posted by TrackDaddy
    Originally posted by Texas
    Originally posted by EPelle
    Originally posted by "Texas":31xc56v4
    5.All NCAA players will do 4 years at the college of their choice. Yep, a contract is signed. Without the school the athlete had no platform to perform upon. Sounds fair to me. If a guy quits school, he cannot enter the NFL for two years.
    Texas, two points/questions: 1) How do you account for the military reserve who may get a call of duty, and returns state-side to head straight to the NFL? Similarly, those who do mormon missions and may opt to hit the NFL ranks instead of returning to NCAA two years older, but only one grade advanced? 2) What happens when the university shuts down the team three years into the athlete's contract?
    Nobody has to play in the NFL. If the NFL is something you plan on doing you'd better not head off to BYU. Obviously a school shutting down/military service would get special treatment. Yes like everything else there will be grey areas.

    The deal is trying to keep an athlete in school and out of the NFL until after he graduates. Like everything else there will be circumstances/situations to consider. We do need a system in place that does make an attempt to have a player do his four years at USC. Michigan etc.
    Why make football players stay in college if they have the ability to compete effectively?
    That's not really what I'm saying. I'm talking about if a school gives an athlete the place to shine, he owes them 4 years of his time. The school can depend on him for 4 years.

    There are three things involved here. The athlete, the school and the NFL. Without a school the athlete is a ....who? Without the athletes the school suffers. Without the college athlete there is no NFL. So there needs to be some system that takes all that into account. Yes the school couldn't care less about the NFL.
    What if the kid couldnt compete academically for 4 years?

    If the kid leaves the school then the agreement is off and he's free to pursue other endeavors (NFL).[/quote:31xc56v4]

    Bro.............ha! Yes there will "certain situations"...arise just like any other job. I did mention...grey areas...right? The point is this...

    Kids signing on with a school then leaving their soph/junior year for the NFL seems unfair to the place that gave them their chance. We need to fix this. Young unproven NFLers need to prove themselves first..THEN... the big bucks. That coming from a fan who had never missed a Superbowl and was watching Willie Galimore do his magic long before Barry Sanders so all of this is well thought out...ok?

    Comment


    • #32
      [quote=TrackDaddy]
      Originally posted by Texas
      Originally posted by TrackDaddy
      Originally posted by Texas
      Originally posted by TrackDaddy
      Originally posted by "Texas":wnrlsps4
      Nope, restraint of free trade. I agree some rookies are overpaid but what if a stud is permanently disabled before he has a chance to prove himself? If the owners are willing to risk big money, power to 'em.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

      The NFL shouldn't have to reward a player for what he did in college. Yes the kid showed potential as a collegiate athlete. That's as far as it needs to go. The kid doesn't have to play in the NFL, that's his choice and he knows the nature of the beast so he'll have to roll the dice himself. Yes injury is part of the deal. If he signs on with a team he agreed to take his chances.

      The NFL needs to have a certain rate per round. Yes a first rounder will get more than a second rounder and so on. The first pick won't however make more than the last pick in the 1st round. The way it's being done today is totally ridiculous. Paying guys who haven't done a thing vs NFL competition as much as they do is crazy.

      Imagine a 10 year vet watching some kid who hasn't done a thing signing for more than he's making, as he sits there with a reconstructed knee, a shoulder out of wack, a broken nose, an ankle that will never be the same and a finger twice the size it ought to be,

      Something is broke and needs fixing.
      Shouldn't draft picks be viewed as an investment risk?

      Sometimes owners get far more than they paid for.

      In fact, I'd argue that happens far more often because lower draft picks are often hungrier.
      Should kids who have done..0...on an NFL field make more $$$$$$$ than a guy who has? The NFL is a whole different deal than what these guys saw in college. The first thing you notice is the speed of the game, Soooooo much faster! Paying a colege player big bucks based on how he did in the slower game vs smaller slower athletes isn't right. You pay him the big bucks...after..he has shown he can hang in the big time.
      What about players like Matt Ryan, LaDanian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson, for example?

      They were among the best players in the league from the moment they stepped on the field.
      Then there's....

      Heath Schuler
      Ryan Leaf
      Curtis Enis
      Ron Dayne
      KiJana Carter
      Rashan Salaam
      Bobby Humphrey
      Brian Bosworth
      Cedric Benson

      .....etc etc etc etc etc etc....................
      Like I said, investments have risks.

      Casinos stay in business because you lose more than you win.[/quote:wnrlsps4]

      Intelligent people do all they can to minimize risk...right? You use every tool available to you to maximize your chances....right?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Marlow
        In the paper this morning is a discussion of the NFL going to an 18-game season, presumably getting rid of 2 pre-season games. Your plan is working, Texas! :twisted:

        18 games? The methodical destruction of human bodies continues . . .
        I think my best prediction was this one....

        Me....there needs to be a station that shows nothing but old fights and track meets and football games. A "classics" type deal. I'd love to see Jimmy Brown run again or Cassius Clay fight or the Jets vs the Colts.

        enter...ESPN CLASSICS

        :lol:

        Comment


        • #34
          [quote=Texas][quote=TrackDaddy]
          Originally posted by Texas
          Originally posted by TrackDaddy
          Originally posted by Texas
          Originally posted by "TrackDaddy":1qggnnj9
          Originally posted by "Texas":1qggnnj9
          Nope, restraint of free trade. I agree some rookies are overpaid but what if a stud is permanently disabled before he has a chance to prove himself? If the owners are willing to risk big money, power to 'em.
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

          The NFL shouldn't have to reward a player for what he did in college. Yes the kid showed potential as a collegiate athlete. That's as far as it needs to go. The kid doesn't have to play in the NFL, that's his choice and he knows the nature of the beast so he'll have to roll the dice himself. Yes injury is part of the deal. If he signs on with a team he agreed to take his chances.

          The NFL needs to have a certain rate per round. Yes a first rounder will get more than a second rounder and so on. The first pick won't however make more than the last pick in the 1st round. The way it's being done today is totally ridiculous. Paying guys who haven't done a thing vs NFL competition as much as they do is crazy.

          Imagine a 10 year vet watching some kid who hasn't done a thing signing for more than he's making, as he sits there with a reconstructed knee, a shoulder out of wack, a broken nose, an ankle that will never be the same and a finger twice the size it ought to be,

          Something is broke and needs fixing.
          Shouldn't draft picks be viewed as an investment risk?

          Sometimes owners get far more than they paid for.

          In fact, I'd argue that happens far more often because lower draft picks are often hungrier.
          Should kids who have done..0...on an NFL field make more $$$$$$$ than a guy who has? The NFL is a whole different deal than what these guys saw in college. The first thing you notice is the speed of the game, Soooooo much faster! Paying a colege player big bucks based on how he did in the slower game vs smaller slower athletes isn't right. You pay him the big bucks...after..he has shown he can hang in the big time.
          What about players like Matt Ryan, LaDanian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson, for example?

          They were among the best players in the league from the moment they stepped on the field.
          Then there's....

          Heath Schuler
          Ryan Leaf
          Curtis Enis
          Ron Dayne
          KiJana Carter
          Rashan Salaam
          Bobby Humphrey
          Brian Bosworth
          Cedric Benson

          .....etc etc etc etc etc etc....................
          Like I said, investments have risks.

          Casinos stay in business because you lose more than you win.[/quote:1qggnnj9]

          Intelligent people do all they can to minimize risk...right? You use every tool available to you to maximize your chances....right?[/quote:1qggnnj9]

          Yes,

          Not entering the Casino at all helps. :wink:

          In your proposal what happens to lower draft picks, for example, who were immediate sensations who spend years being underpaid based on their production?

          I mean they're drafted based on potential too and in their case the system was no less flawed.

          Or even the high draft picks who turn out to be immediate stars...do they get to be paid like it?

          Are their contracts renegotiated
          The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

          Comment


          • #35
            [quote=TrackDaddy][quote=Texas][quote=TrackDaddy]
            Originally posted by Texas
            Originally posted by TrackDaddy
            Originally posted by "Texas":3635cz8d
            Originally posted by "TrackDaddy":3635cz8d
            Originally posted by "Texas":3635cz8d
            Nope, restraint of free trade. I agree some rookies are overpaid but what if a stud is permanently disabled before he has a chance to prove himself? If the owners are willing to risk big money, power to 'em.
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

            The NFL shouldn't have to reward a player for what he did in college. Yes the kid showed potential as a collegiate athlete. That's as far as it needs to go. The kid doesn't have to play in the NFL, that's his choice and he knows the nature of the beast so he'll have to roll the dice himself. Yes injury is part of the deal. If he signs on with a team he agreed to take his chances.

            The NFL needs to have a certain rate per round. Yes a first rounder will get more than a second rounder and so on. The first pick won't however make more than the last pick in the 1st round. The way it's being done today is totally ridiculous. Paying guys who haven't done a thing vs NFL competition as much as they do is crazy.

            Imagine a 10 year vet watching some kid who hasn't done a thing signing for more than he's making, as he sits there with a reconstructed knee, a shoulder out of wack, a broken nose, an ankle that will never be the same and a finger twice the size it ought to be,

            Something is broke and needs fixing.
            Shouldn't draft picks be viewed as an investment risk?

            Sometimes owners get far more than they paid for.

            In fact, I'd argue that happens far more often because lower draft picks are often hungrier.
            Should kids who have done..0...on an NFL field make more $$$$$$$ than a guy who has? The NFL is a whole different deal than what these guys saw in college. The first thing you notice is the speed of the game, Soooooo much faster! Paying a colege player big bucks based on how he did in the slower game vs smaller slower athletes isn't right. You pay him the big bucks...after..he has shown he can hang in the big time.
            What about players like Matt Ryan, LaDanian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson, for example?

            They were among the best players in the league from the moment they stepped on the field.
            Then there's....

            Heath Schuler
            Ryan Leaf
            Curtis Enis
            Ron Dayne
            KiJana Carter
            Rashan Salaam
            Bobby Humphrey
            Brian Bosworth
            Cedric Benson

            .....etc etc etc etc etc etc....................
            Like I said, investments have risks.

            Casinos stay in business because you lose more than you win.[/quote:3635cz8d]

            Intelligent people do all they can to minimize risk...right? You use every tool available to you to maximize your chances....right?[/quote:3635cz8d]

            Yes,

            Not entering the Casino at all helps. :wink:

            In your proposal what happens to lower draft picks, for example, who were immediate sensations who spend years being underpaid based on their production?

            I mean they're drafted based on potential too and in their case the system was no less flawed.

            Or even the high draft picks who turn out to be immediate stars...do they get to be paid like it?

            Are their contracts renegotiated[/quote:3635cz8d]

            I mentioned rookies signing two year contracts. After two years and you've had a chance to get a feel for what you've really got, then you sign them on for what you think they are worth or you let them go. Keep in mind these college kids are around 22 coming out, how many multi millionaires at 22 do you know? So the guy has to wait until he's 24 to make more $$$$$ than his dad, granddad and his dad and his dad combined ever made. How much were you making at 24? Yeah...me either!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Texas
              Where did you get the impression there could be an NFL without the Walter Paytons. Jerry Rices, Big Bens, "Mean" Joe Greens, Randy Mosss? Where did I give that impression?
              Huh? I never made any mention of those players. What the hell are you talking about? :?

              Two Questions:
              1) Some of your proposals regarding salaries and free trade sound like communist ideas. Are you a capitalist?
              2) Do you believe in anti-trust laws?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                Originally posted by Texas
                Where did you get the impression there could be an NFL without the Walter Paytons. Jerry Rices, Big Bens, "Mean" Joe Greens, Randy Mosss? Where did I give that impression?
                Huh? I never made any mention of those players. What the hell are you talking about? :?

                Two Questions:
                1) Some of your proposals regarding salaries and free trade sound like communist ideas. Are you a capitalist?
                2) Do you believe in anti-trust laws?
                Didn't you mention non BCS? All those players were from non BCS schools. I thought it was obvious...hmm?

                Football can never be compared to the real world, I thought you understood that. Will we ever see a fat Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader? What about discrimination...right? Will we ever see a 45 year old rookie? Why not? Here we find something totally different that what you/I find out here in the real world. That world can have unique rules/laws because it is just that....unique. Name one job where a kid graduates out of Grambling and in a few months is a multi millionaire.....well? What job can you retire at 30 and be set for life?

                The things I've mentioned are very real situations that not only I but others have kicked around. There most definitely needs to be something done about rookie contracts. You do remember there was a time when we didn't have free agency...right? So yes things can and do change.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Texas
                  Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                  Originally posted by Texas
                  Where did you get the impression there could be an NFL without the Walter Paytons. Jerry Rices, Big Bens, "Mean" Joe Greens, Randy Mosss? Where did I give that impression?
                  Huh? I never made any mention of those players. What the hell are you talking about? :?

                  Two Questions:
                  1) Some of your proposals regarding salaries and free trade sound like communist ideas. Are you a capitalist?
                  2) Do you believe in anti-trust laws?
                  Didn't you mention non BCS? All those players were from non BCS schools. I thought it was obvious...hmm?
                  I only mentioned "non-BCS" because you seemed to hold Alex Smith's non-BCS school against him.
                  Originally posted by Texas
                  Alex Smith has done what as a 49er? Try...nothing! In college he played at Utah, now what collegiate powers does Utah play? So a guy looking good vs.......... See how ridiculous the $$$$$ he got for signing with the Niners was.
                  You see, unlike you, I'm not a football snob.
                  Originally posted by Texas
                  Football can never be compared to the real world, I thought you understood that. Will we ever see a fat Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader? What about discrimination...right? Will we ever see a 45 year old rookie? Why not? Here we find something totally different that what you/I find out here in the real world. That world can have unique rules/laws because it is just that....unique. Name one job where a kid graduates out of Grambling and in a few months is a multi millionaire.....well? What job can you retire at 30 and be set for life?

                  The things I've mentioned are very real situations that not only I but others have kicked around. There most definitely needs to be something done about rookie contracts. You do remember there was a time when we didn't have free agency...right? So yes things can and do change.
                  It's not age the prevents 45-year-olds from playing in the NFL, it's performance. I guarantee that if a 45-year-old comes along who can perform like a 25-year-olds, he'll make a roster. Haven't you ever seen the movie The Rookie? There also plenty of professions with height and/or weight requirements - the military, airline stewardesses, astronauts, etc. - not that I would consider NFL cheerleader a profession. Do they even get paid? Finally, there are plenty of professions where people can become young and wealthy outside of sports. There's acting, singing, rapping, modeling, music, radio, computer science, Wall Street to name a few. What's your point?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                    Originally posted by Texas
                    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                    Originally posted by Texas
                    Where did you get the impression there could be an NFL without the Walter Paytons. Jerry Rices, Big Bens, "Mean" Joe Greens, Randy Mosss? Where did I give that impression?
                    Huh? I never made any mention of those players. What the hell are you talking about? :?

                    Two Questions:
                    1) Some of your proposals regarding salaries and free trade sound like communist ideas. Are you a capitalist?
                    2) Do you believe in anti-trust laws?
                    Didn't you mention non BCS? All those players were from non BCS schools. I thought it was obvious...hmm?
                    I only mentioned "non-BCS" because you seemed to hold Alex Smith's non-BCS school against him.
                    Originally posted by Texas
                    Alex Smith has done what as a 49er? Try...nothing! In college he played at Utah, now what collegiate powers does Utah play? So a guy looking good vs.......... See how ridiculous the $$$$$ he got for signing with the Niners was.
                    You see, unlike you, I'm not a football snob.
                    Originally posted by Texas
                    Football can never be compared to the real world, I thought you understood that. Will we ever see a fat Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader? What about discrimination...right? Will we ever see a 45 year old rookie? Why not? Here we find something totally different that what you/I find out here in the real world. That world can have unique rules/laws because it is just that....unique. Name one job where a kid graduates out of Grambling and in a few months is a multi millionaire.....well? What job can you retire at 30 and be set for life?

                    The things I've mentioned are very real situations that not only I but others have kicked around. There most definitely needs to be something done about rookie contracts. You do remember there was a time when we didn't have free agency...right? So yes things can and do change.
                    It's not age the prevents 45-year-olds from playing in the NFL, it's performance. I guarantee that if a 45-year-old comes along who can perform like a 25-year-olds, he'll make a roster. Haven't you ever seen the movie The Rookie? There also plenty of professions with height and/or weight requirements - the military, airline stewardesses, astronauts, etc. - not that I would consider NFL cheerleader a profession. Do they even get paid? Finally, there are plenty of professions where people can become young and wealthy outside of sports. There's acting, singing, rapping, modeling, music, radio, computer science, Wall Street to name a few. What's your point?
                    Really not getting it are you? Tell me were you drafted, when you got your job, well neither was I. Where is it where you can't work where you want, talking city? So right there we find something totally unique to what we see out in that other world. All I'm saying and if you tried at all you'd get it is this....

                    Too much $$$$ is being paid to unproven athletes and something needs to be done about it. We also need a system where athletes are in some agreement to do thier 4 years at the school that gave them their platform to perform. The way things are being done now is wrong. Guys leaving school early and making way too much when they haven't done a thing at the NFL level. Something needs to change.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Texas
                      Really not getting it are you? Tell me were you drafted, when you got your job, well neither was I. Where is it where you can't work where you want, talking city? So right there we find something totally unique to what we see out in that other world. All I'm saying and if you tried at all you'd get it is this....
                      This is just irrelevant jibberish that doesn't address my points.
                      Originally posted by Texas
                      Too much $$$$ is being paid to unproven athletes and something needs to be done about it. We also need a system where athletes are in some agreement to do thier 4 years at the school that gave them their platform to perform. The way things are being done now is wrong. Guys leaving school early and making way too much when they haven't done a thing at the NFL level. Something needs to change.
                      Anyone who uses phrases like "too much money" is not a capitalist. You may want a system in which the free market doesn't determine a players value, but WE definitely don't need it.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                        Originally posted by Texas
                        Really not getting it are you? Tell me were you drafted, when you got your job, well neither was I. Where is it where you can't work where you want, talking city? So right there we find something totally unique to what we see out in that other world. All I'm saying and if you tried at all you'd get it is this....
                        This is just irrelevant jibberish that doesn't address my points.
                        Originally posted by Texas
                        Too much $$$$ is being paid to unproven athletes and something needs to be done about it. We also need a system where athletes are in some agreement to do thier 4 years at the school that gave them their platform to perform. The way things are being done now is wrong. Guys leaving school early and making way too much when they haven't done a thing at the NFL level. Something needs to change.
                        Anyone who uses phrases like "too much money" is not a capitalist. You may want a system in which the free market doesn't determine a players value, but WE definitely don't need it.
                        Don't really understand the NFL do you? You think it's just another job don't you? That's the problem you're having.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Texas
                          Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                          Originally posted by Texas
                          Really not getting it are you? Tell me were you drafted, when you got your job, well neither was I. Where is it where you can't work where you want, talking city? So right there we find something totally unique to what we see out in that other world. All I'm saying and if you tried at all you'd get it is this....
                          This is just irrelevant jibberish that doesn't address my points.
                          Originally posted by Texas
                          Too much $$$$ is being paid to unproven athletes and something needs to be done about it. We also need a system where athletes are in some agreement to do thier 4 years at the school that gave them their platform to perform. The way things are being done now is wrong. Guys leaving school early and making way too much when they haven't done a thing at the NFL level. Something needs to change.
                          Anyone who uses phrases like "too much money" is not a capitalist. You may want a system in which the free market doesn't determine a players value, but WE definitely don't need it.
                          Don't really understand the NFL do you? You think it's just another job don't you? That's the problem you're having.
                          Since I'm the one who's happy with the status quo, it would appear that you have the problem.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                            Originally posted by Texas
                            Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                            Originally posted by Texas
                            Really not getting it are you? Tell me were you drafted, when you got your job, well neither was I. Where is it where you can't work where you want, talking city? So right there we find something totally unique to what we see out in that other world. All I'm saying and if you tried at all you'd get it is this....
                            This is just irrelevant jibberish that doesn't address my points.
                            Originally posted by Texas
                            Too much $$$$ is being paid to unproven athletes and something needs to be done about it. We also need a system where athletes are in some agreement to do thier 4 years at the school that gave them their platform to perform. The way things are being done now is wrong. Guys leaving school early and making way too much when they haven't done a thing at the NFL level. Something needs to change.
                            Anyone who uses phrases like "too much money" is not a capitalist. You may want a system in which the free market doesn't determine a players value, but WE definitely don't need it.
                            Don't really understand the NFL do you? You think it's just another job don't you? That's the problem you're having.
                            Since I'm the one who's happy with the status quo, it would appear that you have the problem.
                            I'm not the only one....


                            CHAUTAUQUA, N.Y. -- NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said it's "ridiculous" to reward untested rookies with lucrative contracts, and wants the issue addressed in contract talks.

                            "There's something wrong about the system," Goodell said Friday. "The money should go to people who perform."

                            Goodell referred to Michigan tackle Jake Long's five-year, $57.75 million contract -- with $30 million guaranteed. Long was the first overall draft pick by the Miami Dolphins in April.

                            "He doesn't have to play a down in the NFL and he already has his money," Goodell said during a question-and-answer period at the end of a weeklong sports symposium at the Chautauqua Institution. "Now, with the economics where they are, the consequences if you don't evaluate that player, you can lose a significant amount of money.

                            "And that money is not going to players that are performing. It's going to a player that never makes it in the NFL. And I think that's ridiculous."

                            Goodell said he favors lowering salaries offered to rookies, but allowing a provision for those players to renegotiate their deals after proving themselves on the field.

                            His statement was greeted by a long round of applause from the estimated crowd of 2,000 inside the amphitheater.

                            Speaking to reporters before his appearance, Goodell said he plans to open negotiations with the players union on a revamped labor deal this fall. He's listened to concerns from all 32 owners in meetings over the past month.

                            "We just finished a series of one-on-one meetings with all 32 teams, where I have a better understanding and people have a better understanding of the economics each team is facing," Goodell said. "I think we can identify what it is we need in a negotiation to continue to make the agreement work for the NFL and for the players."

                            Goodell said the key need is to have the NFL Players' Association appreciate the financial challenges owners face with rising stadium construction costs and a faltering economy. Those issues were not anticipated in the previous collective bargaining agreement, which provided players a 60 percent share of the league's gross revenues.

                            "As our costs increase outside of player costs, that other 40 percent ... squeezes the margins and just makes it financially unworkable," Goodell said. "There has to be some more recognition of the costs."

                            League owners, last month, voted unanimously to opt out of the CBA that was signed in spring 2006. The decision to opt out maintains labor peace through 2011, but will result in changes regarding the NFL's salary cap and contract signings if a new deal is not signed by March 2009.

                            Goodell referred to next March as a deadline, but "not the end deadline," but hoped a deal could be reached by then. If not, teams will enter the following season without a salary cap. While there are concerns some of the NFL's richer teams would use their vast resources to buy up star players, there's also a drawback for players.

                            Under the new rules, the time for free agency in an uncapped year would rise from four years to six and allow teams to protect one extra player with franchise or transition tags. In addition, the two-year lag would allow many teams to extend the contracts of their most important players, maintaining the continuity that is important to winning teams.

                            Goodell acknowledged the NFL and its owners failed to foresee the economic issues that would face the league when the last CBA was approved.

                            "There have been some things that none of us could've envisioned," Goodell said. "You have an economy that's weakening. You have aspects of the deal that we didn't realize that we were going to be building billion-dollar stadiums. ... Things happen. I don't look back at it as a mistake. I look back at it as what do we need to do going forward?"


                            Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Texas
                              Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press
                              Texas, you're going to get read the riot act by gh for a copy and paste. You might want to give a link or only quote a small portion.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Daisy
                                Originally posted by Texas
                                Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press
                                Texas, you're going to get read the riot act by gh for a copy and paste. You might want to give a link or only quote a small portion.
                                I thought it was short enought to slide by.

                                gh if you're there....sorry won't be doing that again.

                                Comment

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