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When the courts become "Big Brother"

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jack Slocombe
    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
    If a parent's religious beliefs permitted him to allow his 11-year-old daughter to have sex with a 40-year-man, wouldn't that be trumped by the state's obligation look out for the well-being of the child?
    Now your talking about violating a specific law and that is a crime. Big difference.
    So is child endangerment . . .

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    • #17
      [quote=bad hammy]
      Originally posted by "Jack Slocombe":2tuqp6zz
      Originally posted by jazzcyclist
      If a parent's religious beliefs permitted him to allow his 11-year-old daughter to have sex with a 40-year-man, wouldn't that be trumped by the state's obligation look out for the well-being of the child?
      Now your talking about violating a specific law and that is a crime. Big difference.
      So is child endangerment . . .[/quote:2tuqp6zz]

      Good heavens, Bad Hammy, have they made it a crime to murder your kids, because that is what it is no matter how you wanna spin it. You dont own your children, they have rights! rant over
      phsstt!

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      • #18
        I find it ironic how quickly most of your arguments would probably take a 180-degree turn if the child in this case was still in the womb :roll:

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Grasshopper
          I find it ironic how quickly most of your arguments would probably take a 180-degree turn if the child in this case was still in the womb :roll:
          So is throwing down the abortion card as fatal to threads as tossing in the Hitler card??

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Jack Slocombe
            As an atheist, I think she is dumb
            Sigh...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Grasshopper
              I find it ironic how quickly most of your arguments would probably take a 180-degree turn if the child in this case was still in the womb :roll:
              I think that is a great point. This thread will self destruct in 5 mins. Before we go i hate abortion and think its a tragic, on the far other hand, is birth control murder?
              phsstt!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by SQUACKEE
                Originally posted by Grasshopper
                I find it ironic how quickly most of your arguments would probably take a 180-degree turn if the child in this case was still in the womb :roll:
                I think that is a great point. This thread will self destruct in 5 mins. Before we go i hate abortion and think its a tragic, on the far other hand, is birth control murder?
                Freedom of choice. Don't want one...skip the abortion. If you do....do it.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: When the courts become "Big Brother"

                  Originally posted by Jack Slocombe
                  Interesting case. Judge rules the parents are neglectful of childs medical care and orders treatment. The parents reject it on the grounds of religious belief. It looks like the treatment is about 95% sucessful and no treatment is about 95% fatal. Is personal freedom of choice, good or bad, more important than the big brother mentality that says we know what is better for you. The conflict is that both sides are right and when they are in conflict, the rights of the individual should rule. The kid will probably die, but that is his choice. Big brother should spend his time with folks who want his help. The soldier fights for our rights and do-good judges cannot take them away. Shame on the judge.


                  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_he_me/ ... rced_chemo
                  In this case, it's a pretty gray area, especially regarding the child's ability to understand what is going on and the success rates.

                  However, in the past there have been cases of courts trying to force older teens to receive treatment, when the odds of it helping are much less in their favor. I think if a teen is old enough to fully understand the situation (~age 14-16) and if the odds of treatment helping them are questionable, I think they should be allowed to have a say in their own medical care.

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                  • #24
                    [quote=Jack Slocombe]
                    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                    Originally posted by "Jack Slocombe":34woo9aj
                    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                    If a parent's religious beliefs permitted him to allow his 11-year-old daughter to have sex with a 40-year-man, wouldn't that be trumped by the state's obligation look out for the well-being of the child?
                    Now your talking about violating a specific law and that is a crime. Big difference.
                    Good point. But don't you think this shows some inconsistency in laws, when they'll protect a child from being molested, but not insure that a child gets adequate, mainstream, life-saving medical care when needed?
                    I agree, but I think the law attempts to not tread on personal freedoms as much as possible and it is a ragged line. No easy answer. A comparison is the new eco laws in California, which have lots of validy,but the backlash is lots of companies just pick up stakes and move to another state or country where they can better hold down their costs. Both sides are valid and in conflict.[/quote:34woo9aj]

                    As usual, jazzcyclist makes a lot of sense when he says there is no easy answer because there is not. As a surgeon, our dilemma usually comes into play with Jehovah's Witnesses, who refuse blood transfusions. We go thru the options and always ask them, "What if you're dying and will die without the blood?" And this has occurred to surgeons operating on children of Jehovah's Witnesses, though fortunately I have not had to deal with that. Its an awful situation to have to deal with. I've been pretty lucky in that I've never had any major blood loss during surgery on a Jehovah's Witness.

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                    • #25
                      IMO children generally come to believe what they are taught from an early age by their parents or caregivers. By the time they reach the age of reason they may be already indoctrinated into extreme alternative beliefs. I don't believe an 11 year old is competent or independent enough to make a reasoned decision and must be protected by the courts.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by bad hammy
                        So is throwing down the abortion card as fatal to threads as tossing in the Hitler card??
                        Remember the white house thread is still alive.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by lonewolf
                          This is a no-brainer. Treat the child.
                          That's it in a nutshell.

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                          • #28
                            I believe Hitler should have been aborted. Die thread die! :twisted:
                            phsstt!

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                            • #29
                              http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_ ... rced_chemo

                              Minnesota mother and her son "disappeared". The boy has been told (probably by her), the chemo will kill him.
                              "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                              by Thomas Henry Huxley

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                              • #30
                                State statutes require parents to provide necessary medical care for a child.

                                Seems resonable to me. The mother wants to fight the cancer with vitamins. :shock:
                                phsstt!

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