California Budget Doomsday?

[paulthefan]

Meanwhile, it seems pretty obvious that the Gubernator is getting sound advice by reading my posts on this thread:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 8474.story

... Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger vowed Wednesday to let California government come to a "grinding halt" ... A loan would only "give them another reason why we don't have to do it now," the governor said. "What we need to do is just to basically cut off all the funding ... Schwarzenegger reiterated his support for a constitutional convention to overhaul state government, calling it "the only hope that I have" for substantive reform ...

probably not, just telling all the taxpayers what they want to hear while their attention is on the state budget. Once their attention is removed the governator will hold the patient in place so that the dems can stick them good.

[richxx87]

Meanwhile, it seems pretty obvious that the Gubernator is getting sound advice by reading my posts on this thread:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 8474.story

... Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger vowed Wednesday to let California government come to a "grinding halt" ... A loan would only "give them another reason why we don't have to do it now," the governor said. "What we need to do is just to basically cut off all the funding ... Schwarzenegger reiterated his support for a constitutional convention to overhaul state government, calling it "the only hope that I have" for substantive reform ...

[Pego]

The real question is, if you're ALREADY GOT those things (roads, sewer systems, etc.), why willingly throw them away to (maybe) start over on a micro-community basis?

No, actually the question is: Are you getting what you pay for? Are you and your community paying $20 million dollars (in taxes) for a mediocre road system installed by bored, unmotivated CalTrans wage-slaves overseen by a bevy of overpaid bureaucrats in Sacramento?

Wouldn't you rather pay a mere $2 million dollars to the private contractor of your choice who's working on incentive bonuses and has motivation to see to it that there is far better quality control throughout?

I've just saved you and every community in CA $18 million dollars and given you a better road. The "negative" side of that is that all those useless, unproductive bureaucrats will lose their jobs and be forced to find something productive to do.

So yes, my answer is willingly throw them away. Willingly become proactive (even if it seems risky). Willingly pay less for a better quality of life for all in CA.

Where are you getting these numbers from? Sure, it'd be great to get the same or better job for 10%, but does that happen in real life? Do you know something I don't?

[kuha]

The real question is, if you're ALREADY GOT those things (roads, sewer systems, etc.), why willingly throw them away to (maybe) start over on a micro-community basis?

No, actually the question is: Are you getting what you pay for? Are you and your community paying $20 million dollars (in taxes) for a mediocre road system installed by bored, unmotivated CalTrans wage-slaves overseen by a bevy of overpaid bureaucrats in Sacramento?

Wouldn't you rather pay a mere $2 million dollars to the private contractor of your choice who's working on incentive bonuses and has motivation to see to it that there is far better quality control throughout?

I've just saved you and every community in CA $18 million dollars and given you a better road. The "negative" side of that is that all those useless, unproductive bureaucrats will lose their jobs and be forced to find something productive to do.

So yes, my answer is willingly throw them away. Willingly become proactive (even if it seems risky). Willingly pay less for a better quality of life for all in CA.

For what it's worth, I don't live in CA and honestly do feel that my community is basically getting its money's worth. There are many other things in life I'd really rather be doing than building roads, sidewalks, etc.

[AthleticsInBritain]

Think how many corporations would gladly move to a no-tax state and be more than happy to sponsor a school, hospital (with naming rights, of course).

If you think this concept could replace corporate taxes, it is utopia.

In theory you have a point, but experience has led me to decide that leaving essential services at the mercy of businessmen is not the best way of going about things.

Look how quickly the banks want to pay back their TARP money (and just where did that money come from?) so they can get out of the strings attached to it.

[richxx87]

The real question is, if you're ALREADY GOT those things (roads, sewer systems, etc.), why willingly throw them away to (maybe) start over on a micro-community basis?

No, actually the question is: Are you getting what you pay for? Are you and your community paying $20 million dollars (in taxes) for a mediocre road system installed by bored, unmotivated CalTrans wage-slaves overseen by a bevy of overpaid bureaucrats in Sacramento?

Wouldn't you rather pay a mere $2 million dollars to the private contractor of your choice who's working on incentive bonuses and has motivation to see to it that there is far better quality control throughout?

I've just saved you and every community in CA $18 million dollars and given you a better road. The "negative" side of that is that all those useless, unproductive bureaucrats will lose their jobs and be forced to find something productive to do.

So yes, my answer is willingly throw them away. Willingly become proactive (even if it seems risky). Willingly pay less for a better quality of life for all in CA.

[kuha]

All schools, for instance, should be private. If you're not paying taxes any longer, then you'll have extra money to pool with neighbor families to set up a school.

The idea that this is somehow preferable to most people paying a bit more in taxes (and hopefully a more equitable tax system overall) is highly amusing.

Let's also set up neighborhood clubs to:
-design and construct sewer systems, water lines, roads, and other infrastructure
-protect our property and personal safety at all times
-etc.

That's pretty much how it works in many parts of the world. If you don't have those things, how in the heck else are you going get them? I recently pitched in with my neighbors to build a new road in our neighborhood. It's really not a big deal. That's the biggest thing people gotta get over. You can do it (just like the marathon analogy earlier). There's way too much dependence on faceless bureaucrats in Sacramento or Washington or Jakarta who don't give a damn about you or your neighborhood.

I fear that too many of my fellow Californians/Americans have an extremely limited vision that only allows them to see things through an outrageously narrow, obsolete paradigm.

If each county/town/city was being run by a hotshot MBA type, that person would be soliciting corporate money for those services as well. Think how many corporations would gladly move to a no-tax state and be more than happy to sponsor a school, hospital (with naming rights, of course).

If you really prefer to live in the 18th century, go for it...

The real question is, if you're ALREADY GOT those things (roads, sewer systems, etc.), why willingly throw them away to (maybe) start over on a micro-community basis?

[Pego]

Think how many corporations would gladly move to a no-tax state and be more than happy to sponsor a school, hospital (with naming rights, of course).

If you think this concept could replace corporate taxes, it is utopia.

[richxx87]

All schools, for instance, should be private. If you're not paying taxes any longer, then you'll have extra money to pool with neighbor families to set up a school.

The idea that this is somehow preferable to most people paying a bit more in taxes (and hopefully a more equitable tax system overall) is highly amusing.

Let's also set up neighborhood clubs to:
-design and construct sewer systems, water lines, roads, and other infrastructure
-protect our property and personal safety at all times
-etc.

That's pretty much how it works in many parts of the world. If you don't have those things, how in the heck else are you going get them? I recently pitched in with my neighbors to build a new road in our neighborhood. It's really not a big deal. That's the biggest thing people gotta get over. You can do it (just like the marathon analogy earlier). There's way too much dependence on faceless bureaucrats in Sacramento or Washington or Jakarta who don't give a damn about you or your neighborhood.

I fear that too many of my fellow Californians/Americans have an extremely limited vision that only allows them to see things through an outrageously narrow, obsolete paradigm.

If each county/town/city was being run by a hotshot MBA type, that person would be soliciting corporate money for those services as well. Think how many corporations would gladly move to a no-tax state and be more than happy to sponsor a school, hospital (with naming rights, of course).

[kuha]

All schools, for instance, should be private. If you're not paying taxes any longer, then you'll have extra money to pool with neighbor families to set up a school.

The idea that this is somehow preferable to most people paying a bit more in taxes (and hopefully a more equitable tax system overall) is highly amusing.

Let's also set up neighborhood clubs to:
-design and construct sewer systems, water lines, roads, and other infrastructure
-protect our property and personal safety at all times
-etc.

Yup, that's the ticket, for sure...what a paradise...

[richxx87]

It says where I am on my "location" deal.

Yes, comparing what your dealing with in a small island country vs. a state that has 10 times the population and a physical size about 75 times larger, part of a nation many, many times larger than that on both counts. Definitely apples and apples . . .

Not to quibble or get too far off topic, but Bali is actually a small, minority province in the 4th-largest country in the world. As 90% of the country is pushing headlong toward Talibanism, Bali remains a trippy little Hindu afterthought in the grand scheme of the national government...

Back to the topic, the LA Times had this to offer.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 6512.story

I still think they're trying to reform an unworkable, obsolete system (giving an old sow a cosmetic makeover; lipstick, mascara, rouge, etc.), as opposed to my choice of revolutionizing the entire paradigm from A to Z.

[Wang Lung]

The State Worker: California state employees have a pampered image

By Jon Ortiz
[email protected]
Published: Thursday, Jun. 4, 2009 - 12:00 am | Page 3A

State workers, you're the face of California government – and for many outside of it, you're also the hired help. [massive chunk of copy cut by mods... you can't reproduce that much copyrighted material.... give a link to the rest! thanks]

[TrackDaddy]

It says where I am on my "location" deal. And no, I don't pay any official gov't taxes as such. We get what we pay for, no more, no less.

Okay I didnt notice that before.

I'm at the command post.

What did the people there think of Obama's speech?

[odelltrclan]

Problem is (as I think we've discussed here elsewhere) that too many Californians have voted as if they thought that the music would go on forever and they'd never have to pay the piper. There will be pain in the Golden State until its citizens decide to pay enough in taxes to cover the services that they want and should reasonably expect from their government.

Uh, someone please send this message to Washington in hurry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bad hammy]

It says where I am on my "location" deal. And no, I don't pay any official gov't taxes as such. We get what we pay for, no more, no less.

Yes, comparing what your dealing with in a small island country vs. a state that has 10 times the population and a physical size about 75 times larger, part of a nation many, many times larger than that on both counts. Definitely apples and apples . . .