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  • #46
    Originally posted by TrackDaddy
    I'm only endorsing options and the reason having them may be valid.
    The point is - forced segregation is NOT a viable 'option', because then there is NO option.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Marlow
      Originally posted by TrackDaddy
      I'm only endorsing options and the reason having them may be valid.
      The point is - forced segregation is NOT a viable 'option', because then there is NO option.
      Segregation is such a dirty word.

      If you gave me the choice I'd probably attend the black prom.

      Not because I'm racist, but because the odds are...thats where the fried chicken would be.
      The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by TrackDaddy
        If you gave me the choice I'd probably attend the black prom.
        You wouldn't have a choice. That is the point of the article.

        Comment


        • #49
          I watched a film, "For One Night" starring Raven Symone (from "Cosby"), about six weeks ago which nearly addresses all the concerns in this thread.

          From Lifetime Network, which broadcast the film: "Raven-Symoné stars as a high school teen who causes quite a ruckus in her small town after making it her mission to integrate her prom, which had been racially divided for decades. While the entire community is up in arms, a reporter back home for a visit covers the story - and the two attempt to reverse a long-standing racist tradition and make history for at least one night! Based on a true story."

          The movie ends by telling you next year the kids returned to segregated proms.

          More:
          http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx ... lifetime04

          Comment


          • #50
            The latter day British equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan may be forced to allow non-white members:

            http://tinyurl.com/n3e8h5

            For those not familiar with the background to this, the BNP's leader, Nick Griffin, who was pelted with eggs by protesters after his election to the European parliament earlier this month, said recently: "As you know, we don’t break the law. We never have, we never will, you know, on financial things. Don't mind breaking the odd race law, or being accused of it, you know, inadvertently." Obviously someone saw this as a provocation. The whole cross-party establishment is very alarmed that a far right organisation got two people elected to the European parliament under its proportional representation system and would obviously like to curtail the BNP at the earliest opportunity. On this new legal challenge, Griffin has said he's "not that bothered" and accused the head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission of being a "black racist". He helpfully explained that the BNP seeks to defend “ethnic groups who need special protection such as the English in their own country, who are now second-class citizens” and is “entitled to discriminate on that basis and not on the grounds of colour” under section 25 and section 26 of the Race Relations Act. "Because the English, the Scots, the Irish and the Welsh are historically white, does not mean being white is the marker... We are not discriminating on the grounds of colour." The BNP requires all members to be "indigenous Caucasians". Griffin told Channel 4 news "We're not here for power, we're not here for money, we're here to help out ethnic community because they're the victims of vicious discrimination by the liberal elite." Asked about his stance on a hypothetical West Indian whose family had lived in Wales for 200 years, Griffin said "There's no such thing as a black Welshman. You can have a black Briton but you can't have a black Welshman. Welsh is about people who have lived in Wales since the end of the last ice age... we'd be happy to have him in Britain, but we wouldn't have him in our party. Our party is here to act for the indigenous people of these islands who are being turned into second class citizens by people like Trevor Phillips with our taxes. Until he stops his discrimination against us, we are very reluctant to change how we act to organise for our people."

            BNP Membership rules:

            MEMBERSHIP

            1) The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic groups’ emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALL ER 1062, HL.

            2) The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.

            3) Membership of the party shall be open only to those who are 16 years of age or over and whose ethnic origin is listed within Sub-section 2

            The comment about "the last ice age" shows an hilarious lack of knowledge about the history of the British Isles, even if Griffin did study history and law at the University of Cambridge.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by dakota
              Nick Griffin, who was pelted with eggs by protesters after his election to the European parliament earlier this month
              Got elected!!! That is scary, even though the turnout was probably pathetic.

              Originally posted by dakota
              Griffin did study history and law at the University of Cambridge.
              That is scary too. Reminds me of the white collar football hooligans that coordinated all the riots and fights. See Bill Buford's "Among the Thugs"

              Comment


              • #52
                The BNP are the folks who say that Dame Kelly Holmes isn't fully British.

                http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... Brons.html

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Pego
                  No matter how many arguments be made for segregation, one thing remains clear. Separate is not equal.
                  Amen! The thing is that separate was never meant to be equal, at least not in the U.S. For example, when my father graduated from high school in 1959, the state of Louisiana paid $56 per pupil to Black schools and $125 per pupil to White schools, and they called that equal. :evil: The books that Black schools got were always hand-me-downs from White schools, which means that White students were the only ones who ever saw new books. Furthermore, since White students knew their books would end up in Black schools they made a point to write all kinds or racist and demeaning things in the books.

                  Buses were segregated with Whites in the front and Blacks in the back, but the allocation of seats wasn't fixed at 50%-50%, but fluid and required the bus driver to allocate as many seats from the back of the bus for Whites as was necessary to insure that no Whites were standing while Blacks were sitting, and they called that equal. :evil:

                  And even the military was segregated, but during World War II, German POW's, who were being held on American military bases in the U.S., had the privilege of using certain facilties on the bases that White American soldiers used, but that Black American soldiers were denied access to, and they called that equal. :evil:

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                    Originally posted by Marlow
                    Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                    I'm only endorsing options and the reason having them may be valid.
                    The point is - forced segregation is NOT a viable 'option', because then there is NO option.
                    Segregation is such a dirty word.

                    If you gave me the choice I'd probably attend the black prom.

                    Not because I'm racist, but because the odds are...thats where the fried chicken would be.
                    :lol:

                    Stop it, TD. :lol:
                    The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                      Originally posted by Pego
                      No matter how many arguments be made for segregation, one thing remains clear. Separate is not equal.
                      Amen! The thing is that separate was never meant to be equal, at least not in the U.S. For example, when my father graduated from high school in 1959, the state of Louisiana paid $56 per pupil to Black schools and $125 per pupil to White schools, and they called that equal. :evil: The books that Black schools got were always hand-me-downs from White schools, which means that White students were the only ones who ever saw new books. Furthermore, since White students knew their books would end up in Black schools they made a point to write all kinds or racist and demeaning things in the books.
                      jc

                      Being born during the civil rights movement and being from Texas I actually lived this as a student in the 1960s and 70s.

                      But do you believe the prom issue to be based in perceived preference or in Jim Crow-ish type bigotry?
                      The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                        But do you believe the prom issue to be based in perceived preference or in Jim Crow-ish type bigotry?
                        I don't know about jazzcyclist (actually, I do), but my answer is an unqualified "Yes".

                        Jazzcyclist, it's just about time you showed up .
                        "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                        by Thomas Henry Huxley

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                          Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                          Amen! The thing is that separate was never meant to be equal, at least not in the U.S. For example, when my father graduated from high school in 1959, the state of Louisiana paid $56 per pupil to Black schools and $125 per pupil to White schools, and they called that equal. :evil: The books that Black schools got were always hand-me-downs from White schools, which means that White students were the only ones who ever saw new books. Furthermore, since White students knew their books would end up in Black schools they made a point to write all kinds or racist and demeaning things in the books.
                          jc

                          Being born during the civil rights movement and being from Texas I actually lived this as a student in the 1960s and 70s.
                          I think you're about the same age as me, give or take a year, and I think you'll agree with me that we never experienced Jim Crow in any significant way. You may have experienced racism, but not the state-sanctioned racial discrimantion that our parents experienced. The only thing I can remember is sitting in a segregated waiting room at the doctor's office as a small child, but at that point I wasn't yet old enough to realize that I was experiencing Jim Crow. Also, initially Blacks were banned from little league baseball in my town, but I didn't know this until years later. The story goes like this:

                          When I got old enough to play, my Dad who had just returned from Vietnam, found out that Blacks were banned. So he went down to the mayor's house that night and assured him that either I would be on one of the teams by opening day or he would get his rifle and go to the ballpark and insure that our town would be the lead story of the national news the next day. What happened is that the mayor called an emergency meeting with the city council that night and they decided to form two new teams to accomodate the Black kids and we would be allowed to play in the city league with everyone else. That first year there were two all-Black teams and six all-White teams in the league, since the White teams had already been picked and been given uniforms, but next year and from then on, the teams were integrated. Looking back, it all makes sense, like why we didn't get our uniforms until a couple of games after opening day and why our uniforms were new and the White kids had used uniforms.

                          My Dad also integrated the local bowling alley in a similar fashion. On many occasions, I've heard his sisters talk about what a different person he was when he returned from Vietnam and one them even blames Vietnam for my parents' divorce. Today he talks about how dangerous he was back then and how he's grateful he is that God watched over him and stopped him from ever doing anything foolish, but considering that he went through both Tet Offensives and returned home from the Mekong Delta just a few days after MLK was assassinated, I can understand.

                          I believe there were probably other instances like this when I was a toddler and my parents were taking me places, but I was too young to remember.
                          Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                          But do you believe the prom issue to be based in perceived preference or in Jim Crow-ish type bigotry?
                          I'll go with the latter.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Jazz: Powerful story; thank you.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Wow, Jazz- mesmerizing. My deepest respect for your father's service and my deepest sympathy for what he came home to.
                              phsstt!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                On the question of whether this is bigotry or cultural preference, I think the various articles make clear this is something which is being dictated by the parents, which seems dubious to me, because when did the youth generation ever willingly accept their social cues from old fogies. And it's also pretty clear that what the parents are doing is racist, and it's sad that the kids have to put up with such bullshit, and you just hope these bigoted attitudes don't get perpetuated for another generation in some families and peer groups because of it, or that it causes any lasting psychological suspicions to colour the views of how society is for those on the receiving end of it, because if this is what the prom is like, you can bet a lot else is rotten in that town too. There probably is a widespread local assumption in some quarters that there's nothing wrong with it, but that doesn't make it so. Maybe in some kind of post racial society this would be less of an issue, but I get the feeling some parts of twenty first century Georgia aren't there yet. I don't think it would even occur to people who weren't racist to bring race into this, you'd just throw a "fried chicken party", or whatever, and invite anybody to come who wants to because they like the sound of that as much as TrackDaddy does. Whereas I think the parents who are the bouncers for the "white" prom are definitely enforcing the BNP dress code. Hopefully they have men and women in the community who see things the way Jazzcyclist's dad and the mayor did in his story.

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