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'Players & Fans Don't Care About Steroids'

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  • Dutra
    replied
    Originally posted by tandfman
    Originally posted by gh
    And I think you're wrong about athlete preference (unfortunately).

    Back when athletes were much more open about talking of their steroid use, I heard no end of t hem extol the virtues of this that or the other. Never once did I ever hear anybody lament the fact that they "had" to take them, or wish they didn't.

    To a body, they loved the fact that their marks were improving.
    Yes, but in those days, a clean level playing field was unthinkable--it wasn't even remotely possible. That generation may have felt as they did because the alternative was failure. So they looked for the best juice they could find--they had to. And they were not at all reluctant to talk about it among themselves as you described.

    I really do believe that most of today's athletes would prefer a totally clean sport.
    I think that's a very rosy view of most athletes and most people.

    Leave a comment:


  • tandfman
    replied
    Originally posted by gh
    And I think you're wrong about athlete preference (unfortunately).

    Back when athletes were much more open about talking of their steroid use, I heard no end of t hem extol the virtues of this that or the other. Never once did I ever hear anybody lament the fact that they "had" to take them, or wish they didn't.

    To a body, they loved the fact that their marks were improving.
    Yes, but in those days, a clean level playing field was unthinkable--it wasn't even remotely possible. That generation may have felt as they did because the alternative was failure. So they looked for the best juice they could find--they had to. And they were not at all reluctant to talk about it among themselves as you described.

    I really do believe that most of today's athletes would prefer a totally clean sport.

    Leave a comment:


  • George P.
    replied
    Originally posted by tandfman
    But I really think that most of our top athletes would prefer a totally drug-free sport, and would eagerly choose that option over anything goes.
    Yes, along with the extremely prejudicial effect on their career in the face of a rigorous, effective testing program.

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    replied
    And I think you're wrong about athlete preference (unfortunately).

    Back when athletes were much more open about talking of their steroid use, I heard no end of t hem extol the virtues of this that or the other. Never once did I ever hear anybody lament the fact that they "had" to take them, or wish they didn't.

    To a body, they loved the fact that their marks were improving.

    Leave a comment:


  • tandfman
    replied
    Originally posted by gh
    Then why when steroids were legal did people rush to take them when they were introduced?
    Because they felt they had to in order to be competitive. They continued to do so even when they were illegal, when the rules and enforcement procedures were so lax that it was easy to avoid detection.

    But I really think that most of our top athletes would prefer a totally drug-free sport, and would eagerly choose that option over anything goes. Apart from not having to take potentially harmful substances, drug-free means the best athlete wins, not the one with the best chemist.

    Unfortunately, I think you're right about the indifference of most fans.

    Leave a comment:


  • George P.
    replied
    Originally posted by Pego
    Originally posted by Squackee
    Depressed?...take a drug
    Do you realize, how many lives have been saved by the advent of the antidepressants? One has to be extremely careful distinguishing between medicinal and recreational/PED's indications.
    There's depressed. And then there's "depressed." Drugs to help deal with clinical depression are a fine thing and surely a life-saver for many. But I think there are too many people taking (prescription!) drugs because they're unhappy with life: their boss is a tyrant, their spouse is a shrew or their children are annoying. The latter is not a good idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    replied
    Then why when steroids were legal did people rush to take them when they were introduced?

    What's foremost on most elite (and non-elite) athletes' minds is running/jumping/throwing as far as possible, not debating morality.

    Same as the general public and their endeavors.

    Leave a comment:


  • tandfman
    replied
    Re: 'Players & Fans Don't Care About Steroids'

    Originally posted by gh
    Scott Ostler on the Manny Ramirez deal , , , ,Ramirez has provided the final proof that nobody cares if a player has more needles stuck in his butt than a porcupine. If the fans don't care, and the players don't care, who am I to care?.... >>>
    But in track and field, I think most of the players do care. Most elite athletes would much prefer a totally clean sport than one in which they feel they have to juice themselves to the max in order to compete successfully at the highest levels.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pego
    replied
    Originally posted by Squackee
    Depressed?...take a drug
    Do you realize, how many lives have been saved by the advent of the antidepressants? One has to be extremely careful distinguishing between medicinal and recreational/PED's indications.

    Leave a comment:


  • George P.
    replied
    It seems to me that T&F has more of a straight-line connection between PED and trashing the integrity of the sport -- trashing the things that are important to fans (and fellow competitors) about the sport. Fewer dots to connect. For baseball the line is there all right, but it's less direct: you still have to hit the ball or the strike zone. How much help from the juice do you get doing those? For football -- who knows? (For NASCAR, who cares?)

    Also, I like to think track fans are a higher, more discerning type of folks than the denizens of "Mannywood." I really like to think that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dutra
    replied
    Somewhat similar out of NY

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/07052009/sp ... 177700.htm

    When was the last time you ever saw a football fan wring their hands with moral outrage when one of their players was outed as a steroid cheat? When was the last time you heard football fans talk about how "betrayed" they were, or how these juicing players were mangling some sacred public trust between the sport and its fans? If you are a Jets fan, what was your first reaction when you heard Calvin Pace had been busted for violating the NFL's policy on performance-enhancing drugs?

    Leave a comment:


  • dal4018
    replied
    Originally posted by SQUACKEE
    Depressed?...take a drug
    Wanna lose weight but dont want to exercise?...take a drug
    Your kid is hyper?....give him a drug
    Bored?...take a drug

    I think drugs are here to stay, but baseball, unlike Pro bodybuilding, will never stop fighting their use. Thats the game inside the game. How long until the next "clear" shows up?
    SQUACKEE your right this country wouldn't survive without drugs.Keep a eye out for Albert Puhols he's on pace to hit 62 home runs.

    Leave a comment:


  • paulthefan
    replied
    Originally posted by Jack Slocombe
    If you want pure.......go to church, well not in South Carolina. Wonder if their gov had a 4 hour erection? See......there's even PEDs in church.

    It's time to make Conte an American icon. With work and dedication we can be as good as the Russians and East Germans of old.
    Jack, your stream of consciousness ramblings are blurring your disdain for South Carolina with your unconnected disdain for church...recommend a course on concentration and mental dexterity, perhaps there is a drug.

    regarding the russians and east germans, I think we passed them in every arena noble and ignoble by 1990.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marlow
    replied
    Ah, satire, a difficult art.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jack Slocombe
    replied
    Bring on the drugs. I'm tired of records set back in the 80s and 90s. So we a have a few deaths......no big deal in a world of billions. Folks don't go to car races to watch the cars go round and round. They go to see the major splats (crashes). We want spectactular so don't give us mundane.

    If you want pure.......go to church, well not in South Carolina. Wonder if their gov had a 4 hour erection? See......there's even PEDs in church.

    It's time to make Conte an American icon. With work and dedication we can be as good as the Russians and East Germans of old.

    Leave a comment:

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