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  • #16
    Originally posted by 2 cents
    Many people find soccer boring, and I don't believe they've been stigmatized with drug scandals, have they?
    Not really...although footy has had it's share of drug-related scandals...one of the latest being 13 members on a team from Cyprus testing positive for steroid use. Football fans seem to get more excited by Scandinavian referees.

    The Italian Football betting/drug/South African supermodels/transvestite etc. scandal uncovered in 2006 seemed to stigmatize the soccer public for a good few minutes...but it takes a lot more than just simple steroid use.

    cman

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    • #17
      Originally posted by gh
      you don't hang jaywalkers, and the man in the street thinks of PED use as jaywalking..... sad, but true.
      yeah it just robs scholarships and professional prize winnings and endorsements and travel oppurtunities and usually a better way of life away from those athletes that are trying to compete being fair and honest and going by the rules.

      and it is worse when a athlete in a contact sport uses PED's, example a steroid using boxer would probably be able to hit harder with steroids than he would without them (kind of like boxer antonio margarito having his hands wrapped illegally so he can hit much harder, or like when trainer panama lewis took the padding out of his fighters glove so his fighter could hit harder,like hitting with a bare fist, result panama lewis banned from boxing as he should be, but the fighter who was pounded by unpaded gloves suffers damage so he can no longer pursue his boxing dream and his depression leads to him committing suicide.

      football the same thing steroids means they can hit much harder meaning increased chance of injuries, remember jack tatum paralyzing daryl stingly with a hit, that was not steroid related, but injuries like that are more frequent if the player doing the hitting is on steroids.

      the same as jaywalking, sure.

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      • #18
        I'll tell you what totally ticks me off - Major League Baseball's public-service commercial against drugs which shows a cracking statue of a discus thrower. I haven't heard one peep out of anyone in protest. Track & Field ought to retaliate with a statute of a over-muscled hitter or do something. :x

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        • #19
          The men in the street are quite hypocrites. Yeah they treat some sports as a slap on the wrist when those athletes violate but don't let it be seen from "olympicsports'.
          But I guess they are somewhat rational, since they are less partial to sports that are suppose to be a competitions of 100% individualistic athletism eg. track, field, cycling and swimming.

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          • #20
            Maybe the average man on the street doesn't view track as he does other sports. Other pro team sports are for professionals...men who make a living at a sport. They need to do whatever they can to compete at that high level. Everyone knows that PEDs are a part of most of these sports...it is accepted.

            T&F and most other oly sports are viewed much differently...still as "amateur" sports that are contested in high school and college and once every four years in the olympics. The "real athletes" have already found their way into the professional ranks, the "real pro sports" where, again, Peds are part of the game.

            When we watch Worlds Strongest Man or Oly. Weight Lifting or NFL do we really consider it possible for these guys to be 100% clean? Do we care? Not really...so why in track?

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            • #21
              Much of this discussion in a nutshell: The main issue is
              not whether PEDs are allowed or not, but that the rules
              (and testing, PR, etc.) must be the same in all sports.

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              • #22
                I think most here are failing to look at the team aspect of these other sports. Most baseball fans in LA aren't Manny Ramirez fans per se, but are Dodger fans. As long as Manny is on their team, playing well, and their team is winning his indiscretions will be forgiven by them. The thing they want most is for the Dodgers to win, not for the sport to remain somehow "pure." However, just let Manny come to bat here in NYC and the boos come raining down on him, not so much because he was a drug user, but because he's played for the hated Red Sox and Dodgers. Once Manny moves on to another team he won't be so popular in LA anymore. The team aspect is paramount in these sports.

                But, individual sports are different, and Olympic sports, for better or worse, are especially different. The public still sees these as "pure" amateur expressions of national image and pride, and displays of individual sporting perseverance. You don't even have to be caught using steroids to get in trouble in these sports. Just look at the ridiculous dust up over Michael Phelps taking a bong hit. Marijuana use is something I would think an overwhelming majority of us under the age of 60 have done at some point in our lives, and it certainly isn't performance enhancing, but that bong hit cost our beloved national hero and shining example for America's youth most of his public standing (and millions of dollars).

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by imaginative
                  Much of this discussion in a nutshell: The main issue is
                  not whether PEDs are allowed or not, but that the rules
                  (and testing, PR, etc.) must be the same in all sports.
                  Starting with the Big Kahuna in USA sports, the NFL will never allow WADA-rules testing. 98% of the players would be gone, the game would forever be different and the fans (and money) would leave. Owners don't want it, sponsors don't want it, players don't want it, fans don't want it.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Al in NYC
                    . . . but that bong hit cost our beloved national hero and shining example for America's youth most of his public standing (and millions of dollars).
                    Hardly . . .

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                    • #25
                      well

                      Originally posted by gh
                      Allow me to enter exhibit A: front page now reporting that putter Brent Noon to go into Georgia's Hall of Fame. Admittedly, his doping positive didn't come until after he left the school, but if the IAAF/USATF were in charge of this—not to mention this board's lynch mob—you think he'd even get a sniff?

                      Here's a bottom-line thing for y'all. All the "experts" who post here keep saying that the sport needs better marketing. Marketing means selling to a mass audience, not just a small group of aficionados. If the masses are willing to live and let live, maybe one shouldn't be doing stupid things that alienate them.
                      well...manny has obviously not aliented his fans...why is a track man different if busted?
                      Wolfie Lives

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by gh
                        Here's a bottom-line thing for y'all. All the "experts" who post here keep saying that the sport needs better marketing. Marketing means selling to a mass audience, not just a small group of aficionados. If the masses are willing to live and let live, maybe one shouldn't be doing stupid things that alienate them.
                        I'd much, much rather stay a small niche sport that at least tries to preserve the integrity of its records and competition than sell our collective soul to the Devil in order to become "mainstream."

                        That's a very easy choice for me.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Zat0pek
                          I'd much, much rather stay a small niche sport that at least tries to preserve the integrity of its records and competition than sell our collective soul to the Devil in order to become "mainstream."

                          That's a very easy choice for me.
                          Fair enough. But if we were not a small niche sport we would have:

                          1. Better athletes. Now the best ones go play a money-making sports if they have any skills. If money was similar in T&F a lot of them would be headed our way.

                          2. More big domestic meets, and an indoor circuit that was actually nationwide instead of just an east coast thing.

                          3. Bigger and better stadiums to hold the crowds flocking to watch the action in person.

                          4. Lots more T&F action on TV.

                          5. An image of T&F as being a fairly clean sport.

                          But no, wouldn't want any of that stuff. Hell no. Instead we have a dirty sport with a dirty sport image, no fans, crappy TV coverage, few opportunities to see the stuff live and substandard facilities when we do find a meet to attend, all while the best athletes go elsewhere. Looks good to me . . .

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by gh
                            The answer is simple: the "pro" sports (read, non-Olympic) have never gone out of their way to demonize their stars. They've kept it quiet, in the family, had minimal penalties and practiced spin control on behalf of their sport.

                            The Olympic sports have done the complete opposite, and rather than be rewarded for truth, justice and the Greek way, they've created an image of being filled with criminals. And their answer to fixing this ghastly image problem is to become even more Draconian. Talk about a death spiral.....

                            The average sports fan, at least when it comes to team games, has shown that he thinks all this is a tempest in a teapot and just part of the way the game is played.

                            We have a brutal row to hoe here.
                            Could not have summarized the situation better.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Zat0pek
                              Originally posted by gh
                              Here's a bottom-line thing for y'all. All the "experts" who post here keep saying that the sport needs better marketing. Marketing means selling to a mass audience, not just a small group of aficionados. If the masses are willing to live and let live, maybe one shouldn't be doing stupid things that alienate them.
                              I'd much, much rather stay a small niche sport that at least tries to preserve the integrity of its records and competition than sell our collective soul to the Devil in order to become "mainstream."

                              That's a very easy choice for me.
                              I have no illusions about the sport ever being mainstream. I'd just like to see it treated with respect, and I think it's possible to have an effective anti-drug program without shitting all over ourselves. The suits don't get it.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by gh
                                The answer is simple: the "pro" sports (read, non-Olympic) have never gone out of their way to demonize their stars. They've kept it quiet, in the family, had minimal penalties and practiced spin control on behalf of their sport.

                                The Olympic sports have done the complete opposite, and rather than be rewarded for truth, justice and the Greek way, they've created an image of being filled with criminals. And their answer to fixing this ghastly image problem is to become even more Draconian. Talk about a death spiral.....
                                .
                                I am NOT trying to get in a fight here, or trying to bring religion into this discussion or attempting to equate PEDs with PEDophilia, but nonetheless in the first paragraph you have perhaps described the Catholic Church in relation to some problems within the priesthood. I am not asserting that you are wrong, either, but of course spin control is only effective if people are not cognizant that they are being spun...

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