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  • #16
    Originally posted by Marlow
    [The key is that anyone can get the technology. In swimming, everyone can have the suit. Level playing field.
    In theory yes but not every HS swimmer can afford to buy these slick suits. Perhaps it is not an issue at the world level but my granddaughter, a nationally ranked HS swimmer, in her own reverse leveling of the playing field, declined wearing the suit because not all swimmers had them. Didn't seem to matter, she still defeated swimmers who wore the suits.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bhall
      Structural integrity was my term/interpretation. 4:11 news piece/interview- http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =106989036
      Thank you. After listening to Mr. Wood, I still don't understand, how those suits help lesser athletes over the better ones, but he insisted, that is the case.
      "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
      by Thomas Henry Huxley

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      • #18
        Originally posted by gh
        At up to 500 bucks a suit (and they don't last long), no, everybody can't get the technology. It creates an unacceptable financial wedge.
        And that isn't happening at the high school level ALL the time? My PVers win sometimes just because we have more poles than other schools. Coincidentally, good poles are $500 a pop. Should the nationally federation limit the poles a school can have?

        But . . . I am now reading that the suits actually DO alter a swimmer's 'ability' to go fast (other than the reduced friction) - that's a different matter!

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        • #19
          Phelps is so pissed off he's sitting things out:

          http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/p ... le1234429/

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          • #20
            Clearly, these are not the Olympic swimsuits of 2004 or even 2008. They’re faster, more high-tech and made of materials that trap air and allow for better buoyancy.
            First I'd seen that admission.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Pego
              After listening to Mr. Wood, I still don't understand, how those suits help lesser athletes over the better ones, but he insisted, that is the case.
              It's all about core stability. Up til now, better swimmers were stronger and could hold an optimal body position as both a base for the swiming stroke and to streamline the body(hugely signficant in water). Towards the end of a race this would have a greater and greater positive effect for the better swimmers as the less fit would have increasingly larger amounts of drag due to increasingly poor body shape.

              The new suits are so tight (some take 20 minutes to be jammed into) and compressive that they provide the core stability and streamlining normally missing from the less fit. Of course this reduces the differential between good and second tier because the good were already close to optimal through their own efforts and so have less to gain.

              Of course the bouyancy and slickness increases advantage all swimmers equally and move all times down - similar to Mondo vs cinders.

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              • #22
                Thank you.
                "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                by Thomas Henry Huxley

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                • #23
                  For some strange reason, I'm willing to bet good horse money that, when these suits are all taken off the market, as far as international competition is concerned, WRs in 2011 will still drop like flies

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CookyMonzta
                    For some strange reason, I'm willing to bet good horse money that, when these suits are all taken off the market, as far as international competition is concerned, WRs in 2011 will still drop like flies
                    Horse money, eh? Not the real stuff? Very wise decision. Before you lay your bet try out these stats:

                    World Records set in Olympic years(not AT Olympics)
                    1992 - 16
                    1996 - 5
                    2000 - 33
                    2004 - 17
                    2008 - 109
                    2012 - 0?

                    Average annual world records through the key drug eras 1970-1998 ~ 18

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by El Toro
                      Originally posted by CookyMonzta
                      For some strange reason, I'm willing to bet good horse money that, when these suits are all taken off the market, as far as international competition is concerned, WRs in 2011 will still drop like flies
                      Horse money, eh? Not the real stuff? Very wise decision. Before you lay your bet try out these stats:

                      World Records set in Olympic years(not AT Olympics)
                      1992 - 16
                      1996 - 5
                      2000 - 33
                      2004 - 17
                      2008 - 109
                      2012 - 0?

                      Average annual world records through the key drug eras 1970-1998 ~ 18
                      Do you have the numbers for 2009 thus far?

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                      • #26
                        2009 list up to a couple of days ago http://www.swimnews.com/news/view/6723 Seems to about 50 with more to come no doubt.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by FINA
                          "The world records that have been established up to date have been established in the conditions for all of the swimmers," he said.

                          "They choose the swimsuits like it happened, in the conditions which were there.
                          But future elite swimmers won't have those suits, jackass. And those future swimmers have to compete against those suit-aided records.

                          The tensile strength of the high-tech suits reminds me of the bench press shirts that some powerlifters use. The shirts cradle the arms with such force that they can add over 20% to a bench press. But at least they keep separate world records for shirt-assisted bench presses.

                          Some important differences between these swimsuits and the pole vault are:
                          (1) poles are inherently expensive no matter what -- there will be $10 swimsuits but there will never be $10 poles (at least not new ones).

                          (2) pole vaulting will unavoidably involve the big piece of equipment called a pole -- whereas swimming doesn't have to use full-body suits. Theoretically swimmers could even swim without suits at all, but a pole-less pole vault wouldn't be a pole vault, it would be a high jump.

                          (3) And most importantly, it takes better technique to make effective use of a superior pole. Changing to a longer or springier pole often initially makes the vaulter fail more until their technique and athleticism catches up with it, whereas a swimmer can just put on a high-tech suit and almost immediately take a second or two off their PR.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by sprintblox
                            (3) And most importantly, it takes better technique to make effective use of a superior pole. Changing to a longer or springier pole often initially makes the vaulter fail more until their technique and athleticism catches up with it, whereas a swimmer can just put on a high-tech suit and almost immediately take a second or two off their PR.
                            Not exactly. I've had vaulters improve a foot the very first time they got on a new pole, because it was the right pole right then. Having the right pole is often the difference between winning and losing - it can make all the difference in the world. As I've mentioned before, I've acquired an arsenal of 30 poles for my school in the last 16 years (not counting the ones we don't use any more) and that makes us a very formidable opponent. We readily lend then out at meets to those that ask, but that's not the same as always having them available.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by gh
                              At up to 500 bucks a suit (and they don't last long), no, everybody can't get the technology. It creates an unacceptable financial wedge.
                              If $500 is an issue, you're not thinking about breaking WRs anyway. Guys aren't coming out of mud huts in Africa and into the pool. Swimming is a sport for middle class white people.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by K.I.R.
                                Originally posted by gh
                                At up to 500 bucks a suit (and they don't last long), no, everybody can't get the technology. It creates an unacceptable financial wedge.
                                If $500 is an issue, you're not thinking about breaking WRs anyway. Guys aren't coming out of mud huts in Africa and into the pool. Swimming is a sport for middle class white people.
                                How true. Here in Illinois the big swimming schools such as Hinsdale Central, New Trier etc. have always been from the suburbs. So the 500 dollar deal, while not cheap is not the big argument. The big problem is that the suits seem to be a huge leveler. The ordinary become great and the great well just a bit more.

                                If track suddenly allowed everyone to wear roller blades in meets, think of all the smucks who could stay with Geb! Even kuha could do it! :lol:

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