Why should college education be so difficult?

[BillVol]

My wife just took an online course and barely pulled a B out of it. But it was very difficult. We ran out of toner printing out all the course notes. It was a semester of work crammed into a month. Besides the class, she had to work, take her mother to dialysis, empty her mom's portable toilet, cook for her, bathe her, etc. Fun stuff like that. Just for starters.

And you can't imagine how frustrating and impersonal it is to take a class in this format. Unless you've taken one. This is a whole other thread.

As she took her tests online, she said, "These questions are all twisted around. Nothing like the notes or the text of the book." Reminded me of my college days.

This made me think: why should a college education be difficult or "twisted around"? Why can't a prof say, "This is what you need to learn. This is what will be on your tests. If you can remember these key points, you will get an A."

Adolph Rupp, the great former Kentucky basketball coach, taught a "Fundamentals of Basketball" class (or something like that) at Kentucky early in his career there. See link below -- go to the final paragraph. He gave his pupils only As, because, he reasoned, no one could be taught basketball from a great basketball mind like Rupp and not receive an A. Why don't other profs feel the same way about themselves? Why do they have to make it difficult? Shouldn't it be the goal of every prof to give all their students an A?

Related to this, the textbook for this class cost $130. Paperback. Something you could see at any bookstore. You could buy a similar book at any bookstore for $14.99 or so. Why do colleges gouge their students in this way?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

[Wang Lung]

It's the only way they can make you think you know less than they do, as it's been my experience that college professors rarely know very much more about their subject than their students.

[Daisy]

it's been my experience that college professors rarely know very much more about their subject than their students.

Only with regard to breadth. I teach genetics but don't know so much about physiology. Also, while the professors might not know the details that does not mean they cannot find the information and use it.

As to the difficulty of the course. The goal is to teach students to use the information they know, not regurgitate it. Those that can use it show they understand it.

As to cramming one whole course into a month, that is always difficult. There is just not enough time for students to practice problems and "click" with regard to integrating the content into the big picture. In biology it is worse since there is a whole vocabulary to get to grips with too. One month is far too rushed even without other commitments.

Shouldn't it be the goal of every prof to give all their students an A?

I do not curve and would give everyone an A if they did well. There are explicit learning goals but many students do not get to grips with them. From my side of the fence I am frustrated they do not do better. All we can do is try new ways to reach these students but we cannot individualise the course, its just not practical.

Related to this, the textbook for this class cost $130. Paperback. Something you could see at any bookstore. You could buy a similar book at any bookstore for $14.99 or so. Why do colleges gouge their students in this way?

I agree the prices are insane but it is the book companies that are gouging the students not the colleges. Part of the reason for the inflated prices are that they are specialty books, not exactly NYTimes bestseller material. More of a problem is all the new editions that attempt to destroy the second hand book market. There are other options though. The book company offers a loose leaf version as an alternative for my students at half the price.

[Bruce Kritzler]

I've had professors brag that "no one in this class will get more than 50% of the questions correct". Guess they only want the students to comprehend 40% of the information?

[Bruce Kritzler]

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[lonewolf]

My college age grandson recently brought me up to speed on college and text book costs. :shock:
I was stunned. .
It is incomprehensible to me that one book now can cost more than an entire semester did in 1949.
Or, that one semester can cost more than did my entire college career.
I seem to recall that texts were recycled, handed down to the next semester enrollees in a specific class and there was a college book exchange "store" Maybe it is different in some subjects but geology or math didn't change that much in a semester or a year. :?
Daisy correctly pointed out that it is the book companies that set the prices, which are high because of relatively limited press runs, but isn't it the colleges who require the new books every semester?
Fortunately, my three kids and three older grandkids all attended college on academic and/or athletic scholarships. I shudder to think what it will cost when the next wave of my younger grandkids, now age 4 and 8, reach college age.
They better be smart, athletic , win the lottery or....have a nice inheritance.

[Daisy]

but isn't it the colleges who require the new books every semester?

True. I could give more generic reading instructions so that any genetics text could be used. That would open up the options on the second hand market. Not sure how well this would go down with the students though as it is pretty common that the students want to know the exact readings to the paragraph.

Some professors make their own reading packets, but even they add up since photocopying is not cheap either.

[Marlow]

The operative question is 'why are some college experiences so frustrating?'
Clearly many college experiences (even those not involving Friday night frat parties) are extraordinary. The answer to the question is, 'Because some professors are incompetent.' Professors are people who are usually very smart and well educated. Common sense not required. People skills not required (initially). Teachers fall on the same bell curve of ninniness as everyone else. Some of us have no business running a class! Daisy's cool. Me? Drain-bamaged. :twisted:

[trackjudge]

My college age grandson recently brought me up to speed on college and text book costs. :shock:
I was stunned. .
It is incomprehensible to me that one book now can cost more than an entire semester did in 1949.

Most schools, at least "brick and mortar" ones with libraries, have the books available to borrow at no cost. Key pages could be photocopied. Not the most convenient system if many students use it, but they usually don't, so if book costs are truly a hardship one need not buy them at all (unless there is an open book exam).
I used to split the cost with a classmate and share books.

[bambam]

My college age grandson recently brought me up to speed on college and text book costs. :shock:
I was stunned. .
It is incomprehensible to me that one book now can cost more than an entire semester did in 1949.
Or, that one semester can cost more than did my entire college career.
I seem to recall that texts were recycled, handed down to the next semester enrollees in a specific class and there was a college book exchange "store" Maybe it is different in some subjects but geology or math didn't change that much in a semester or a year. :?
Daisy correctly pointed out that it is the book companies that set the prices, which are high because of relatively limited press runs, but isn't it the colleges who require the new books every semester?
Fortunately, my three kids and three older grandkids all attended college on academic and/or athletic scholarships. I shudder to think what it will cost when the next wave of my younger grandkids, now age 4 and 8, reach college age.
They better be smart, athletic , win the lottery or....have a nice inheritance.

You should try medical and medical school books - average prices are now at a minimum $300. Many $500-600

[Friar]

Shouldn't it be the goal of every prof to give all their students an A?
Ha. In 40 undergrad courses I got 3, maybe four. Grade inflation in the 21st century is considerable and one of the reasons Summers is out at Harvard is his strong stance against honours graduate status for all.

[K.I.R.]

Re: Why should college education be so difficult?

Shouldn't it be the goal of every prof to give all their students an A?

In my mind, it should be the goal of every prof to give their students the grades they have earned.
Kudos to the prof who smacks the idiot checking facebook in the back row with a C.

College is by and large a joke now but I suppose it needs to be hard somewhere so things like an engineering degree from MIT still mean something.

[polevaultpower]

Experiences vary widely by school and by what you major in. My alma mater was a joke, and I was quite bored (academically) there.

[Bruce Kritzler]

Earlier editions and used text books should be readily available on ebay and other sources. Very little change in most editions, just book companies and professors (who author texts) making money.

[BillVol]

My wife is going to take another class this semester, on campus this time. Picked up her book today. $294. Were there any used books for this class? No. This is the first time this prof has used this book, so they're all new. How convenient. I wonder if these profs get a cut of these sales of books?