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  • Semenya’s testosterone levels

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... evels.html

    as if a test was needed

  • #2
    Wow, chris!

    I dont want to jump to conclusions but this mad scientist team coach dude and the reported testosterone levels puts another twist on this...

    Just wow.

    We older posters remember those East German teams of the 70s and 80s.

    And not to be rude but Semenya's appearance is certainly somewhat reminiscent of that.
    The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

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    • #3
      The analysis on Semenya’s testosterone levels was carried out in South Africa and it is understood this information contributed to the IAAF’s decision to request the South African federation carry out a detailed “gender verification” test on the athlete.
      Is there a limit to how much testosterone can be in the female body to be legal with WADA, or is it only artificial testosterone that is banned?

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      • #4
        This is sickening. I feel bad for Semenya and all concerned. No good will come of this now.

        I'll be very surprised if we see Semenya again in international competition.

        I'm not sure why I feel this way, but this just feels different than what went on in the Regimes of the 70's and 80's.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TrackDaddy
          Wow, chris!

          I dont want to jump to conclusions but this mad scientist team coach dude and the reported testosterone levels puts another twist on this...

          Just wow.

          We older posters remember those East German teams of the 70s and 80s.

          And not to be rude but Semenya's appearance is certainly somewhat reminiscent of that.
          As far as her appearance is concerned, I don't see the connection with the Eastern Block.

          I think this is a mixed case. There's is undoubtedly a gender angle, but most likely, seeing her astronomical progress, the obvious other angle is also at stake. I've seen the video. She said she was a first year sport science student. I didn't see ignorance.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Frans Rutten
            I think this is a mixed case. There's is undoubtedly a gender angle, but most likely, seeing her astronomical progress, the obvious other angle is also at stake. I've seen the video. She said she was a first year sport science student. I didn't see ignorance.
            As a first year student, I would imagine she's just taking basic general studies type stuff.

            She's from a remote village in rural South Africa, I find it highly plausible that if she were given any supplements, she wouldn't know any better.

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            • #7
              One thing that's been a little fishy to me is the defense from her family that, "she has always looked like this."

              On the surface it comes off as naivete, like they don't get the complicated issues behind intersex people, because it's not a very good defense to the argument that she might have issues in that area.

              But it is a better defense if the initial issue raised had been about doping control. This website doesn't allow unfounded speculation about drug use by athletes, but other websites do, and anytime you see a rapid change in an athlete's physique, there tends to be speculation about such things.

              Maybe it's possible that her coaches warned the family in advance that there might be questions raised about her appearance, and that it was important the family let reporters know that this is how God made her and she has always looked like this.


              Issues or not, she is obviously incredibly talented and hard-working. There's no magic pill or superhuman gene that can give you a world title without putting lots of hard work in. I doubt she did anything to bring this on herself, and she ends up being the victim here.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by polevaultpower
                Originally posted by Frans Rutten
                I think this is a mixed case. There's is undoubtedly a gender angle, but most likely, seeing her astronomical progress, the obvious other angle is also at stake. I've seen the video. She said she was a first year sport science student. I didn't see ignorance.
                As a first year student, I would imagine she's just taking basic general studies type stuff.

                She's from a remote village in rural South Africa, I find it highly plausible that if she were given any supplements, she wouldn't know any better.
                Of cause were all speculating in this highly sensitive case. That others, after all she got performancewise certainly far away form that rural village, did give her supplements without her consent, is quite possible. There you would have the connection with the Eastern Bloc restored.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by polevaultpower
                  Is there a limit to how much testosterone can be in the female body to be legal with WADA, or is it only artificial testosterone that is banned?
                  they go by testosterone/epi-testosterone ratio which is supposed to be less than 5 ( might have been tightened to 4 )

                  they are linked biochemical pathways which normally have a ratio of 2 or 3 thru endogenous production

                  a 5 ratio gives some leeway for error ( although i've heard of doping cases where they took epi to bring down the ratio when taking testo ! )

                  the testo level is too variable to use - i think modahl/decker cases drove a stake thru that one's heart

                  anyhows, these ratios are also becoming obselete - they are using techniques to identify testo origin - none of the available products are naturally derived ( extracted from cadaver testes )

                  it is produced with recombinant technology from plant DNA or somesuch

                  they look for plant DNA in the testo - if they find it - you've doped

                  this was basis for gatlin case

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                  • #10
                    It's not with a certain amount of hesitation that I will point at another angle.

                    It's no secret that as in so many sports, athletes are thrived by the opportunities to earn ultimatedly a lot of MONEY. This is widely well-accepted. But chances of becoming Armstrong, Phelps, Woods, name them all, is rather remote.

                    But the 800m women's event became gradually a sort of "void" event.

                    Can it be a coincedence that three years in a row 3 athletes of the african continent emerged to world-class level, from which 2 out of 3 almost overnight from obscurity and the same 2 out of 3 also had to deal with alleged or certain gender-related issues?

                    What also striked me and this is not meant to be demeaning: What is a so young girl from a rural village in Africa doing in the World Youth Champs in an other continent, Europe, performing even at that level "poorly".

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                    • #11
                      A source close to the investigation into the 800 metres gold medallist has confirmed that tests carried out before the start of the World Championships indicated that the runner had three times the normal female level of testosterone in her body.

                      She's three times a lady?
                      phsstt!

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                      • #12
                        this is apalling. just because she's a world champion athlete does not mean she has foregone her right to privacy. aren't her medical records supposed to be private? all the IAAF is supposed to do is determine whether she's eligible to compete in the women's races. people involved in these tests don't have the right to divulge all the minuatie of her medical records.

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                        • #13
                          a dope tesult result announcement is by definition a violation of personal medical records

                          gender testing is by extension just a protracted dope test

                          if you don't want your personal medical records violated there's a simple solution :

                          don't compete !

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                          • #14
                            as i said, all they have to say is, is she eligible or not? that's a yes or no question.

                            all other details should be privileged information.

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                            • #15
                              [quote="SQUACKEE"]A source close to the investigation into the 800 metres gold medallist has confirmed that tests carried out before the start of the World Championships indicated that the runner had three times the normal female level of testosterone in her body. "


                              So, is there some 'IAAF Standard' for female level of testosterone that women are expected to meet to qualify for women competition?

                              Anyone know where online are the 'standards' one can check?

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