Tests Say Semenya An Hermaphrodite? [split]

[elcaballo]

From everything she's said so far I can't imagine Semenya, would want reassignment surgery even if it was possible. She's been raised a girl and considers herself a girl so a girl she should remain. But just not when it comes to entering elite races that are restricted to women, otherwise it's completely unfair on all the other athletes.

She obviously loves running so it all adds up to a completely f***ed up situation for her. Thanks a lot ASA.

By the way, it looks like it was Mike Hurst (journalist and former coach of aussie 400m legend, Darren Clark) who got the original leak from the IAAF source

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/ ... 5771672245

[jeremyp]

What a FUBAR! The IAAF big wigs have rushed in to promise SA that the gold medal would remain. Now they're going to ban her from competition?

Frankly I would let her keep the gold medal. Then award gold, silver and bronze to those who finished behind her. None of this falls on poor old Caster.

[DrJay]

Last week's Sports Illustrated (NFL Preiview on cover) had a nice article, under "Scorecard" I believe, that I can't find online, about how it's not always as simple as male/female, and how a panel convened by, I believe, the IOC in the 1970s (?) threw its hands up and concluded there is no easy answer in situations like this. It's worth a read if you can find it.

[DrJay]

"African National Congress MP and National Assembly sports committee chairman Butana Komphela has already lodged a complaint with the United Nations High Commission on Human Rights, accusing the IAAF of racism and sexism. "

And if the leak proves true, do you think there will be an apology forthcoming to the IAAF? Of course not. Like someone said when the Duke lacrosse players were exonerated, "When the lights come on, the cockroaches scatter."

[Al in NYC]

Last week's Sports Illustrated (NFL Preiview on cover) had a nice article, under "Scorecard" I believe, that I can't find online, about how it's not always as simple as male/female, and how a panel convened by, I believe, the IOC in the 1970s (?) threw its hands up and concluded there is no easy answer in situations like this. It's worth a read if you can find it.

Which is one of the main reasons that the IAAF dumped mandatory gender testing years ago. Medical people couldn't agree at all on what the standard was that those being tested were supposed to meet, and most of them came to the conclusion that any hard and fast standard, if such a thing could indeed be made, would be arbitrary to the point of unfairness. So why put hundreds of women through an invasive and possibly humiliating procedure?

[Pego]

she has both male and female organs

She does not. According to the article quoted on a locked thread, she has testicles, not ovaries. That is a male. External genitals are fairly easy to sculpture.

[Ned Ryerson]

Last week's Sports Illustrated (NFL Preiview on cover) had a nice article, under "Scorecard" I believe, that I can't find online, about how it's not always as simple as male/female, and how a panel convened by, I believe, the IOC in the 1970s (?) threw its hands up and concluded there is no easy answer in situations like this. It's worth a read if you can find it.

Which is one of the main reasons that the IAAF dumped mandatory gender testing years ago. Medical people couldn't agree at all on what the standard was that those being tested were supposed to meet, and most of them came to the conclusion that any hard and fast standard, if such a thing could indeed be made, would be arbitrary to the point of unfairness. So why put hundreds of women through an invasive and possibly humiliating procedure?

Because they might have a pair of male sex organs that are pumping out testosterone.

Do you have data supporting your claim that sex tests have been administered to hundreds or people by athletic organisations?

[rasb]

Yes, it is a complicated situation, but you either need Open Sport (no gender categories) or some sort of a line defining who can compete as a female.
I don't see any other "fair" alternative.

[TrackDaddy]

If Caster has genitals and a high testosterone level, what makes this so complicated athletically?

Seems pretty cut and dried to me from that perspective.

Caster cannot be allowed to compete against women.

Unfortunately Caster's personal resolution of the matter will be more complicated and I wish Caster only the best.

[gh]

I suspect that Semenya might be allowed to compete after some "chemical castration."

If she's got more testosterone than women should have, it can be artificially lowered, no? Of course, she's unlikely to find it easy to break 2:00 anymore, one suspects.

[Frans Rutten]

"Weiss said Semenya's case was the eighth dealing with sexuality issues the IAAF had handled since 2005. "Four athletes were asked to stop their career," he confirmed, without giving further details."

From www.sportsscientists.com today.

[Marlow]

Semenya has 'no womb or ovaries'

I am sad.
This is TMI. Semenya has been put under a microscope that no one should have to be scrutinized by.
I'm all about full disclosure, but I guess I'm being waaaaay too naive to think her insides have to be exposed. Couldn't they just have said that her body produces too much testosterone to be fair to other female competitors? Wasn't that part of the Mary Decker Slaney scenario - her ratio was too high?

[Frans Rutten]

Yes, it is a complicated situation, but you either need Open Sport (no gender categories) or some sort of a line defining who can compete as a female.
I don't see any other "fair" alternative.

The big problem ultimately with certain given human conditions, which still would be accepted by the IAAF, is however to what extent can be determined how much unfair advantage this condition still would bring.

And given the extremely rare occurrence of such athletes, who also want to perform on a world stage, this might be very difficult.

But the comparison of 2008 Bydgoszcz and 2009 Beijing gives such a flag, which cannot be overlooked.

29.43-34.09-33.56-34.90 vs. 26.81-30.02-30.13-28.50

[gh]

Since it's now coming out that there have been past cases, and people who were asked to cease their careers, obviously quietly, I'd say the IAAF has handled these situations well in the past, but obviously got blind-sided on this one. There's always some who won't go quietly into the night.

[Pego]

I suspect that Semenya might be allowed to compete after some "chemical castration."

If she's got more testosterone than women should have, it can be artificially lowered, no? Of course, she's unlikely to find it easy to break 2:00 anymore, one suspects.

Probably, but it'd make no sense for her to continue living as a female. Everything I'll say now is conditional on the veracity of the quoted article, of course.

1. She has testicles, but no ovaries.
2. She looks like a man, she behaves like a man.
3. The only thing that makes her look female are the external genitals. That is, why everybody always assumed, she is a girl. Even Marlow knows what the little boys look like, what the little girls look like :wink: . With the available information, I suspect, her vagina is short and probably dead-ended, not suitable for sex. Since there are no ovaries, I doubt, there would be a uterus present.

With all this, her future offers a lot more to become a man. In her village, not only had there not been funds for such a thing, there probably was not even an awareness of what she really is and what might be available in that big, wide world. Now that she is a celebrity of sorts, I am sure, there will be a sponsor for such medical procedure.