Tests Say Semenya An Hermaphrodite? [split]

[elcaballo]

by another perspective, you mean one that completely misses the point for the sake of having a go at the US and "the west" right?

no, actually, i meant, one other than your own narrow minded, navel-gazing, narcisstistic, hysterical one.

the irony of that last one in particular!!!!!!

i know little things like facts are probably quite scary for you, what with your head all nice and cosy in the sand and all .... but i'll try and spell it out for you regardless

yes, negative attitudes to "butch" women abound the world over. but surely even you aren't so blind as to not to see that for the vast majority this whole controversy has zero to do with whether or not Caster fits a "western stereotype of beauty" and everything to do with whether she is biologically qualified to compete in a restricted women's division (at least without undergoing hormone therapy) ...

the comparison with Babe Didrikson, which forms half the premise of the article, is completely spurious given that i've never heard the suggestion that she had an intersex condition.

add that to the fact that the two "politicians" he chose to quote most in the first half, Winnie Madikizela-Mandela and Julius Malema, have done more to destroy any hopes of broad-based progressive politics in south africa than just about anyone else in the last decade, and it certainly seems like the author had far less interest in rational discussion than in pursuing some kind of agenda ....

how many people do you honestly think are going to be converted to more enlightened attitudes to gay, lesbian, transgeder people when you're trying to hold up this http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?from=...4835836C572284 as a shining example to the west??

[tandfman]

Chuene has now admitted lying and apologized. The political opposition is calling for his head. Stories linked on front page.

[cacique]

by another perspective, you mean one that completely misses the point for the sake of having a go at the US and "the west" right?

no, actually, i meant, one other than your own narrow minded, navel-gazing, narcisstistic, hysterical one.

[elcaballo]

I saw the link to a piece on iol.co.za, but more is revealed by todays article in the Mail and Guardian, SA's traditional bastion of investigative journalism, at http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-09-...-trail-of-lies

i almost vomited with anger when i read that piece. if it's true this whole saga has been one of the most wilfully negligent exploitations of a young athelete since the wall came down. possibly worse given the level of humiliation that must be involved in having your most intimate details picked over for months ...

[mump boy]

another perspective, particularly on why south africans support her:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090831/zirin2

everything in that article is 100% correct and goes some way to explaining the initial reaction to Semenya but is also completely irrelevant if the leaks are true

[MDelano]

New article posted to front page appears to expose how the SA Federation forged ahead when they should have kept her home, and knew it.

I saw the link to a piece on iol.co.za, but more is revealed by todays article in the Mail and Guardian, SA's traditional bastion of investigative journalism, at http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-09-...-trail-of-lies

An exchange of emails between the doctor of the South African athletics team, Harold Adams, and Athletics South Africa boss Leonard Chuene makes it crystal clear that Chuene knew Caster Semenya was gender-tested in South Africa before the World Championships in Berlin last month.

[...]

A senior official close to ASA said that when team South Africa was in Neubrandenburg, Adams received a call from Medforum Medi-clinic informing him of Semenya’s gender test results, which were “not good”. The results can take up to two days to arrive after testing.

The official said Adams then convened a meeting with Chuene, ASA vice-president Kakata Maponyane and the events manager of team South Africa, Phiwe Mlangeni-Tsholetsane. Adams advised them to withdraw Semenya from the competition, but they refused. Adams had also examined sprinters Kagiso Kumbane and Tshegofatso Meshoe, and advised that they should be withdrawn because of injury. The ASA had obliged.

[elcaballo]

another perspective, particularly on why south africans support her:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090831/zirin2

by another perspective, you mean one that completely misses the point for the sake of having a go at the US and "the west" right?

[cacique]

another perspective, particularly on why south africans support her:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090831/zirin2

[Pego]

New article posted to front page appears to expose how the SA Federation forged ahead when they should have kept her home, and knew it.

The early & sometimes hysterical pummelling of the IAAF was really unjustified. They dealt as best they could with an awkward and sensitive issue--one that should have been resolved by the SA federation.

Agreed. SAF knew what was going on. IAAF seems to have been blindsided.

[kuha]

New article posted to front page appears to expose how the SA Federation forged ahead when they should have kept her home, and knew it.

The early & sometimes hysterical pummelling of the IAAF was really unjustified. They dealt as best they could with an awkward and sensitive issue--one that should have been resolved by the SA federation.

[gh]

New article posted to front page appears to expose how the SA Federation forged ahead when they should have kept her home, and knew it.

[lexvid]

Shocking. I actually AGREE with Carl Lewis.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/trackandf ... id=4474732

[Pego]

Thanks bambam. If anybody ever finds out anything about Koubková/Koubek, I'd appreciate it greatly. It's been of my great interest for 50 years, but I was never able to discover anything of value.

[bambam]

A few relevant articles - one quite recent:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 04,00.html

and

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 86,00.html

[bambam]

I'm curious to know what you guys think should happen to Semenya in this spot?

Yes, Semenya is an innocent participant in all this. But, s/he must lose the WC medal and be banned from further participation in the sport. Not for reasons of prejudice, but for the sake of fairness. Biology presents us with a (surprisingly) continous scale, but sport is divided cleanly into two and only two categories: men and women. It may be the "problem" of sport's categories, but under existing rules, Semenya cannot fairly be allowed to compete against women. End of story.

I agree, completely.

Ditto