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  • Washington Redskins losing their name?

    http://www.planetradio1073.com/cc-commo ... le=6011929

    Don't know quite what to make of it - tempest in a teapot or real big deal?

    Lonewolf, I'm depending on you to sort it out!

  • #2
    Marlow, look at your own school... even the nickname " Indians" was perceived as politically incorrect.

    " Cardinal" ?? Weak.

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    • #3
      UND has been tossing this around for a few years:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520248,00.html

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      • #4
        Re: Washington Redskins losing their name?

        Originally posted by Marlow
        http://www.planetradio1073.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=300291&article=6011929

        Don't know quite what to make of it - tempest in a teapot or real big deal?

        Lonewolf, I'm depending on you to sort it out!
        We have been over this before but I am glad to repeat my opinion on Indian themed team names and mascots.

        I am proud of my Comanche/Creek/Choctaw heritage and personally never felt insulted or demeaned by the many Oklahoma High Schools and Colleges ( or elsewhere) who were proud to be Redskins, Savages, Warriors, Indians, Chiefs, Apaches, Kiowas, Comanches or some other tribal name.

        In my generation, at least, these were interpreted as compliments to a proud tradition of athleticism, strength, fighting spirit, tenacity, perseverance, ferocity, competivness ..etc...all good traits, IMO.

        There are a lot of Indians in Oklahoma. There are dozens of tribal headquarter towns and communities where a very few have reverted or maintained tribal ways but the Indian languages are being lost. There are annual celebrations of Indian dances and culture but I don't think anyone still lives in a teepee.
        Most of us were reared in a largely unprejudiced mixed society and have assimilated into the mainstream predominately Caucasian world.

        I was only two years old in 1933 so I don't how or why the Washington football team adopted the name Redskins but I suspect it was for what was considered the right reasons at the time. I don't know anything about the "Indian Society" that is leading the charge on the Redskins. I know a lot of Indians and cannot think of any who have expressed opposition to my viewpoint.
        Oddly, I suspect many/most of the objections come from non-Indians, championing the rights of Indians out of some sense of guilt or misunderstanding of the sentiment of some Indians.

        That said, I am not completely unaware of why some Indians may feel differently.
        There are still Indian lands but no "reservations" in Oklahoma. I have, however, visited reservations in the Dakotas, Montana, Arizona and New Mexico where Indians do live in sub-standard conditions, and are plagued by alcoholism, unemployment and overt community disapproval. I can see why some victims of real or perceived discrimination may hold a different opinion.

        Indignation aside, there are still pragmatists. I am reminded of the incident several years ago when a major donor threatened to withhold a multi-million dollar donation to a sports arena if North Dakota dropped Sioux as a mascot.

        No, I cannot sort this out to everyone's satisfaction. It is a big deal to those who, as in any dispute, sincerely feel passionately about their position. It is tempest in a teapot to those don't see what all the fuss is about.

        Getting down off the fence, I don't think anyone with a drop of Indian blood can visit Wounded Knee without a twinge of revenge or smiling a little inwardly at Little Big Horn..

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        • #5
          Well put, lonewolf. The Seminole Indians endorse FSU's use and there are others like the Fighting Illini that seem 'proper', but images like the Cleveland Indians really gall me for some reason.



          When Stanford lost the Indians as a mascot, none of us in school at the time cared a whit. We wanted 'Robber Barons' or 'Thunderchickens', but the PTB decided to be 'cool' like Harvard and go with a color. LAME!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by lonewolf
            I know a lot of Indians and cannot think of any who have expressed opposition to my viewpoint.
            There is an Indian lady in my neck of woods that led a relentless campaign for elimination of all Indian-related nicknames in school sports for years. She does not separate the ones with clearly racist flavor such as Redskins or quite innocent, such as tribal names. The High School team in her hometown is named Indians and they refused to change it.
            "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
            by Thomas Henry Huxley

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            • #7
              Originally posted by dukehjsteve
              Marlow, look at your own school... even the nickname " Indians" was perceived as politically incorrect.

              " Cardinal" ?? Weak.
              As you know, we have that on the East Coast as well. The Dartmouth Indians are now the Big Green. The St. John's Redmen are now the Red Storm.

              I just hope the animal rights people don't pick up on this and try to get all the Lions, Tigers, Wildcats, and Huskies to change their nicknames. :-)

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              • #8
                As someone else with a chunk of Cherokee blood, I find any and all attempts to excise Indian-based names from sports teams a ridiculous PC overreach.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by bad hammy
                  As someone else with a chunk of Cherokee blood, I find any and all attempts to excise Indian-based names from sports teams a ridiculous PC overreach.
                  What do you think of the Cleveland Indians' logo? Ain't no big thang? I don't know why, but I, with no Indian blood (but my wife, and therefore my kids, all blonde-blue-eyed, do have some Cherokee in them) don't 'appreciate' that buffoonly grinning face.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Marlow
                    . The Seminole Indians endorse FSU's use and there are others like the Fighting Illini that seem 'proper', but images like the Cleveland Indians really gall me for some reason.!
                    I had not considered the Cleveland Indian logo but, I agree, that is an irksome caricature. I cannot decide exactly what the exaggerated, imbecilic smile is supposed to denote. :?
                    Do we have any Clevelanders on here who care to explain, defend or condemn this particular logo?
                    I belatedly remembered that thirty or forty years ago, the University of Oklahoma had a mascot called "Little Red" who set up a teepee in the end zone at football games and emerged to do a "war dance" after every OU score. In retrospect, it was more cartoonish than fearsome and there was a student movement to replace LIttle Red with the Sooner Schooner.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lonewolf
                      thirty or forty years ago, the University of Oklahoma had a mascot called "Little Red" who set up a teepee in the end zone at football games and emerged to do a "war dance" after every OU score. In retrospect, it was more cartoonish than fearsome and there was a student movement to replace LIttle Red with the Sooner Schooner.
                      FSU has a Seminole warrior (actually a student, but the Seminole nation has approved) come riding out on his horse, Renegade, and plant a flaming war spear on the field before every game. It really does fire up the home crowds!

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                      • #12
                        I love the FSU Seminole mascot. A perfect example of what an Indian mascot should be.
                        That said, I attended the Gator Bowl, circa 1985, when FSU humiliated Okla State and admit I did get pretty fed up with the tom-toms, the chants and that damn Seminole on a war pony spiking his flaming spear.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Marlow
                          [don't 'appreciate' that buffoonly grinning face.
                          "buffoon", thats the word I was looking for.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lonewolf
                            I did get pretty fed up with the tom-toms, the chants
                            The tomahawk chop (which the Atlanta Braves also use) and the chant that goes with it, woo-oo-oo-oo-oo, does indeed get exceedingly tiresome!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Marlow
                              Originally posted by lonewolf
                              I did get pretty fed up with the tom-toms, the chants
                              The tomahawk chop (which the Atlanta Braves also use) and the chant that goes with it, woo-oo-oo-oo-oo, does indeed get exceedingly tiresome!
                              I was not fed up with the chant itself. I loved that. It was just that FSU was whooping our butt.
                              On a serendipitous note. As I exited the stadium, I ran into a college track team mate( 1:49 880 guy) that I had not seen in over thirty years. He was/is retired AF living in Myrtle Beach, SC. looked like he could still break 2:00..

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