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  • Dutra
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
    This year's Pro Bowlers were named today. Guess who the AFC's two starting WR's are. Hint: They both played for the U.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/ ... owl-roster
    Isn't Michael Irvin getting a bit long in the tooth to be putting the pads on?

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    This year's Pro Bowlers were named today. Guess who the AFC's two starting WR's are. Hint: They both played for the U.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/ ... owl-roster

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by Avante
    Dutra

    Wayne has more 1200 (yards) plus seasons. He has three seasons where he scored 10 or more TD's, Johnson has...zero. When it comes to a career Wayne as more receptions/yards/TD's. Let's say an injury did Johnson in. Now where are we? Do we put a guy with lesser accomplishments ahead of.............

    No we don't!

    Yes if he stays healthy someday he will surpass Wayne when that happens.... But until that does happen.

    Bo Jackson would be one of the greatest backs that ever played if he'd put up the numbers that the greats did. He didn't so his rookie card goes for a few bucks. It's all about those stats.
    Preach Avante. Preach!

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by Dutra
    It's not acceptable on any level. Johnson now is better than Wayne ever was and has been for a few years. You bring up a 19 year old vs. a 21 year old. Who's making the more salient point?
    If you're comparing Johnson at his best (2008-2009) to Wayne at his best (2006-2007), I'd call it a beauty contest, and we both know there is no single correct answer in a beauty contest. Johnson is bigger and stronger while Wayne was a little quicker and has better body control/acrobatics. And it's perfectly acceptable for me to compare a 19-year-old Johnson to a 21-year-old Wayne after you start out by comparing a 29-year-old Johnson to a 32-year-old Wayne.

    Originally posted by Dutra
    my original statement merely stated that Johnson should be in there over Wayne.
    My only quibble with this is that it's premature at this point. Longevity does matter but I guess it all depends on how you choose to judge a beauty contest.
    Originally posted by Dutra
    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
    Wah wah wah! Do you know who threw the ball to Jerry Rice and how many Super Bowls his team won? Do you know who threw the ball to Michael Irvin and how many Super Bowls his team won? Wah waahhh waaahhhh! :lol:
    Yeah...and your point?
    My point is don't be a crybaby. "Johnson was hurt that year", "Johnson is on a bad team", "Johnson has never played with a Hall of Fame quarterback", "Johnson came from a broken home", "Johnson's dog ate his homework". Wah, wah wah! :cry: By the way, Johnson never had to compete for his quarterback's attention with a Hall of Fame receiver either, and neither did Michael Irvin. Life isn't fair and neither is football.

    Leave a comment:


  • Avante
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Dutra

    Wayne has more 1200 (yards) plus seasons. He has three seasons where he scored 10 or more TD's, Johnson has...zero. When it comes to a career Wayne as more receptions/yards/TD's. Let's say an injury did Johnson in. Now where are we? Do we put a guy with lesser accomplishments ahead of.............

    No we don't!

    Yes if he stays healthy someday he will surpass Wayne when that happens.... But until that does happen.

    Bo Jackson would be one of the greatest backs that ever played if he'd put up the numbers that the greats did. He didn't so his rookie card goes for a few bucks. It's all about those stats.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dutra
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
    Originally posted by Dutra
    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
    Certainly Butch Davis thought Wayne was better than Johnson in 2000 when Johnson was Wayne's backup at Miami.
    There's a great example. Let's use Wayne's senior year and Johnson's sophomore year to make a comparison. Just fuckin' brilliant.
    It's a perfectly acceptable response when you make ridiculous statements like "Andre Johnson is better than Reggie Wayne EVER was". Be more precise with your language from now on.
    It's not acceptable on any level. Johnson now is better than Wayne ever was and has been for a few years. You bring up a 19 year old vs. a 21 year old. Who's making the more salient point?

    Originally posted by Dutra
    Even in one year you believe Wayne was "better" than Johnson you used a year Johnson was injured and yet still led the league in yards per game.
    Every time I've ever heard anyone talk about a receiver "leading the league in receiving" they were either referring total yards or total receptions, not average yards, so I don't know why you decided to throw out that red herring. Injuries are a part of the game, lest we start extrapolating and proclaim Gale Sayers the GOAT of NFL running backs. Also, the year Johnson got injured, Wayne didn't just put up better numbers than Johnson, he put up better numbers than every other receiver in the NFL. Furthermore, while Wayne hasn't been on the D.I. list for as many games as Johnson, he hasn't been immune to injuries during his career either and anyone who follows the Colts knows this. Like Johnson who is playing at less than 100% because of a bad ankle, Wayne has been hampered by a bad knee for several years, but has continued to perform.
    Not as well as Johnson.

    Originally posted by Dutra
    Andre Johnson is a better player than Reggie Wayne. He's been a better player than Reggie Wayne for a number of years.
    I can go with this but it is far different than your original statement.
    Well....no it's not since my original statement merely stated that Johnson should be in there over Wayne.

    Originally posted by Dutra
    Wayne has played on a far superior offense with a QB who's better than most teams in history have played with.
    Wah wah wah! Do you know who threw the ball to Jerry Rice and how many Super Bowls his team won? Do you know who threw the ball to Michael Irvin and how many Super Bowls his team won? Wah waahhh waaahhhh! :lol:
    Yeah...and your point?

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by Dutra
    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
    Certainly Butch Davis thought Wayne was better than Johnson in 2000 when Johnson was Wayne's backup at Miami.
    There's a great example. Let's use Wayne's senior year and Johnson's sophomore year to make a comparison. Just fuckin' brilliant.
    It's a perfectly acceptable response when you make ridiculous statements like "Andre Johnson is better than Reggie Wayne EVER was". Be more precise with your language from now on.

    Originally posted by Dutra
    Even in one year you believe Wayne was "better" than Johnson you used a year Johnson was injured and yet still led the league in yards per game.
    Every time I've ever heard anyone talk about a receiver "leading the league in receiving" they were either referring total yards or total receptions, not average yards, so I don't know why you decided to throw out that red herring. Injuries are a part of the game, lest we start extrapolating and proclaim Gale Sayers the GOAT of NFL running backs. Also, the year Johnson got injured, Wayne didn't just put up better numbers than Johnson, he put up better numbers than every other receiver in the NFL. Furthermore, while Wayne hasn't been on the D.I. list for as many games as Johnson, he hasn't been immune to injuries during his career either and anyone who follows the Colts knows this. Like Johnson who is playing at less than 100% because of a bad ankle, Wayne has been hampered by a bad knee for several years, but has continued to perform.

    Originally posted by Dutra
    Andre Johnson is a better player than Reggie Wayne. He's been a better player than Reggie Wayne for a number of years.
    I can go with this but it is far different than your original statement.

    Originally posted by Dutra
    Wayne has played on a far superior offense with a QB who's better than most teams in history have played with.
    Wah wah wah! Do you know who threw the ball to Jerry Rice and how many Super Bowls his team won? Do you know who threw the ball to Michael Irvin and how many Super Bowls his team won? Wah waahhh waaahhhh! :lol:

    Leave a comment:


  • Dutra
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
    Originally posted by Dutra
    How about this...Andre Johnson is better than Reggie Wayne ever was.

    Not real difficult.
    Bullshit! I was willing to concede to you that Johnson is better than Wayne today, but now you're being hyperbolic. Certainly Butch Davis thought Wayne was better than Johnson in 2000 when Johnson was Wayne's backup at Miami.
    There's a great example. Let's use Wayne's senior year and Johnson's sophomore year to make a comparison. Just fuckin' brilliant.

    And during the eight years that they've both been in the NFL, Wayne was clearly better than Johnson in 2005 and 2007, the stats aren't even close. On the other hand, Johnson was better in 2008 and 2009. I would call 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2010 a wash, but Wayne did win a Super Bowl in 2006. Both have made it to four Pro Bowls and both have been 1st team all-Pro twice. Come on man. Come on.
    Even in one year you believe Wayne was "better" than Johnson you used a year Johnson was injured and yet still led the league in yards per game.

    Andre Johnson is a better player than Reggie Wayne. He's been a better player than Reggie Wayne for a number of years. Wayne has played on a far superior offense with a QB who's better than most teams in history have played with.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by Dutra
    How about this...Andre Johnson is better than Reggie Wayne ever was.

    Not real difficult.
    Bullshit! I was willing to concede to you that Johnson is better than Wayne today, but now you're being hyperbolic. Certainly Butch Davis thought Wayne was better than Johnson in 2000 when Johnson was Wayne's backup at Miami. And during the eight years that they've both been in the NFL, Wayne was clearly better than Johnson in 2005 and 2007, the stats aren't even close. On the other hand, Johnson was better in 2008 and 2009. I would call 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2010 a wash, but Wayne did win a Super Bowl in 2006. Both have made it to four Pro Bowls and both have been 1st team all-Pro twice. Come on man. Come on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dutra
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
    Originally posted by Dutra
    Wayne was never considered the best receiver in the league.

    This isn't even a debate....nor should it be.
    Huh? I thought we were discussing the best two University of Miami alumnus in terms of the greatness of their entire pro careers. I didn't think we were talking about a snapshot in time. Also, I must point out that Michael Irvin was never considered the best receiver in the league either, but what does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

    How about this...Andre Johnson is better than Reggie Wayne ever was.

    Not real difficult.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by Dutra
    Wayne was never considered the best receiver in the league.

    This isn't even a debate....nor should it be.
    Huh? I thought we were discussing the best two University of Miami alumnus in terms of the greatness of their entire pro careers. I didn't think we were talking about a snapshot in time. Also, I must point out that Michael Irvin was never considered the best receiver in the league either, but what does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

    Leave a comment:


  • Dutra
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by Avante
    Originally posted by Dutra
    Originally posted by Avante
    I can see that in time.
    Yeah....like right now.

    Otherwise you're out of your mind.

    Well let's see...

    Wayne...rec-770, yards-10606, TD's-68
    Johnson...rec-667, yards 9106, TD's-49

    Like I said....in time.

    Keep in mind Wayne had to play in the shadow of Marvin Harrison and the Colts throw to Dallas Clark a lot while Johnson is "da man" in Houston.
    You make every point as to why Johnson is the better choice. Wayne was never considered the best receiver in the league.

    This isn't even a debate....nor should it be.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by Avante
    Well let's see...

    Wayne...rec-770, yards-10606, TD's-68
    Johnson...rec-667, yards 9106, TD's-49

    Like I said....in time.

    Keep in mind Wayne had to play in the shadow of Marvin Harrison and the Colts throw to Dallas Clark a lot while Johnson is "da man" in Houston.
    I agree with Avante. You don't rate players on what you expect them to do in the future, you rate them on what they've done. A couple of years ago, there were many folks who were ready to put Tiger Woods ahead of Jack Nicklaus, but today most folks are taking a wait-and-see approach. Furthermore, if Wayne stays healthy, it's very likely he will catch Irvin before Johnson catches him. When comparing all three, Irvin led the league in receiving yards once, Wayne once and Johnson twice, but Wayne is only six yards off the league lead this season.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pego
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by 26mi235
    Wisconsin

    Elroy (Crazy Legs) Hirsch
    Alan Ameche
    Al Toon
    Charles R. "Buckets" Goldenberg Green Bay Hall of Fame, credited as the originator of the draw play
    Milt Gantenbein, End, Green Bay Hall of Fame, 3 NFL Champs rings
    Lee Evans (377 rec 5,934 yds+)
    Pat Richter
    Chris Chambers (532 rec, 7500 yds and counting)
    Owen Daniels, Pro Bowl receiver
    And since he scored more points than 95% of the people listed in this thread, Jim Bakken
    Bennett, Pro Bowl RB
    Ron Dayne
    Let's add Randy Wright.

    Leave a comment:


  • Avante
    replied
    Re: NCAA/NFL

    Originally posted by Bijan
    UCLA- Jack Robinson, Freeman McNeil, Wendell Tyler, Gaston Green, Skip Hicks, Mark Harmon, Gary Beban, Troy Aikman, Karim Abdul-Jabbar, Mike Sherrod, J.J. Stokes, Mel Farr, DeShaun Foster, George Farmer

    Well then let's not forget...

    Bob Waterfield
    Kenny Washington
    Eric Ball
    James McAlister
    Tommy Maddox
    James Owens
    Wally Henry
    Theotis Brown

    Leave a comment:

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