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RIP: Dave Brubeck

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  • bambam
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
    Marsalis' arrogance is similar to Muhammad Ali's arrogance in that it's a playful sort of arrogance. Like Ali, Marsalis is the type of guy who likes to hold court and make everybody in the room feel good, while never letting anyone forget that he's the coolest dude on the room. Then we get to Keith Jarrett, a jazz snob who is every bit the asshole that Davis was, and every bit as arrogant as Marsalis is, with the exception being that he has the worst form of arrogance, not the fun kind.
    Just an FYI - Marsalis lives about 7 houses down from me here in Durham, NC - never met him, though I've seen him and his wife walking around the neighborhood a few times. I'm not really into jazz so not sure what we would talk about - I don't know anything about it.

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  • kuha
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
    Kuha, I'm pretty much where you're at when it comes to jazz. I can't take the esoteric/outside stuff in large doses. Having gone to high school in New Orleans and spent most of my life in south Louisiana, I've gotten to know many of the most-respected jazz musicians and educators in the world, and what I've observed is that many of them would play music that it a lot less accessible to the masses if they weren't worried about hurtng their bottom line. Because of this, older jazz musicians tend to have a much greater propensity to ignore the paying customers and play music for themselves. Some of the most hard-core avant-garde music I've ever heard are gigs where the band members are all tenured university professors over the age of 50, who don't give a fuck if all the fans walk out.
    I would agree with this. At a certain level, many practitioners want to see how far out they can go--and to explore issues or ideas of "professional" or technical interest rather than being simply " safe and tasteful" in a way that any ordinary listener would understand. I totally get that--and totally appreciate it. In some respects, it's about the adventure of exploring rather than merely demonstrating what one has already done 1000 times before.

    I do enjoy the tougher stuff in selective doses-- as I said, it serves to remind us where some, at least, of the boundaries are. But then, on the other hand, someone like Bill Evans is all feeling-- wonderfully deep and understated. The towering genius of the entire genre is that it covers so much ground, with so much personal originality and style.

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  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    Kuha, I'm pretty much where you're at when it comes to jazz. I can't take the esoteric/outside stuff in large doses. Having gone to high school in New Orleans and spent most of my life in south Louisiana, I've gotten to know many of the most-respected jazz musicians and educators in the world, and what I've observed is that many of them would play music that it a lot less accessible to the masses if they weren't worried about hurtng their bottom line. Because of this, older jazz musicians tend to have a much greater propensity to ignore the paying customers and play music for themselves. Some of the most hard-core avant-garde music I've ever heard are gigs where the band members are all tenured university professors over the age of 50, who don't give a fuck if all the fans walk out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Walt Murphy
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    One of my fondest memories as a teenager in Brooklyn was being in a smoke-filled pool hall with Take Five playing on the jukebox.

    Just two days before Brubeck's death, I came across an older gentleman playing an excellent version of Take Five on his sax on a NY City subway station. If I knew how, I'd post the video I took.

    Leave a comment:


  • kuha
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    Originally posted by bad hammy
    I dove very deep into the 50s Davis/Coltrane/Monk etc stuff, along with a lot of earlier jazz, but Coleman/Taylor etc always has been like fingernails on blackboard for me. Guess my aging gray matter couldn't keep up . . .
    Totally understandable, and I share most of that view. The more "abstract" and free-form jazz ( or music in general; most genres have that extreme fringe) is fascinating in that it clearly marks certain boundaries; very few listeners would ever have a steady diet of it. I saw both Taylor and Coleman live in the 1970s and genuinely enjoyed the experience, but neither have ever been on my frequent play list. On the other hand, I've been amazed by the sheer depth of quality in the broad sweep of 1950s/60s jazz--with enormous appreciation for many slightly lesser known figures: Lee Morgan, Tina Brooks, Herbie Nichols, and many others. I have a current craze going for all things Bill Evans ( the pianist).

    Leave a comment:


  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    Years ago, in a small bar near Eugene I caught a Charles Mingus gig. Pretty great stuff. Mingus also yelled at some dude who was trying to make a bootleg tape.

    Leave a comment:


  • tandfman
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    I'm curious to know where you jazz experts think Ahmad Jamal fits in this pantheon? Among pianists, I'd think he'd be pretty high.

    Leave a comment:


  • bad hammy
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    [quote=jazzcyclist]
    Originally posted by kuha
    Originally posted by bad hammy
    Originally posted by "Per Andersen":2hiwdnva
    Take 5 really turned me into a Jazz fan and Brubeck has been one my top 2 favorites ever since, along with Miles Davis.
    Brubeck was the gateway drug for a lot of folks who became jazz fans in his wake.
    Exactly. The first step to Miles, Coltrane, and all those "classics" as well as toward an even more challenging realm: Ornette Coleman, Cecil Taylor, etc.
    I'm guessing that Coleman and Taylor are over the heads of most of the folks on this board as well as post-1965 Coltrane. That music was as cerebral as Brubeck's music was visceral.[/quote:2hiwdnva]
    I dove very deep into the 50s Davis/Coltrane/Monk etc stuff, along with a lot of earlier jazz, but Coleman/Taylor etc always has been like fingernails on blackboard for me. Guess my aging gray matter couldn't keep up . . .

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    Preston, I disagree with you about Miles Davis being a jazz snob. He was an asshole, not a snob. No self-respecting jazz snob would have been caught dead playing some of the stuff Davis played after he went electric. On the other hand, Marsalis is a jazz snob who is very likeable, despite being arrogant. Marsalis' arrogance is similar to Muhammad Ali's arrogance in that it's a playful sort of arrogance. Like Ali, Marsalis is the type of guy who likes to hold court and make everybody in the room feel good, while never letting anyone forget that he's the coolest dude on the room. Then we get to Keith Jarrett, a jazz snob who is every bit the asshole that Davis was, and every bit as arrogant as Marsalis is, with the exception being that he has the worst form of arrogance, not the fun kind.

    But there's a difference between jazz snobs and SEC football snobs. Jazz snobs judge you on what you do, not who you are. There's nothing that a non-SEC football team can do to earn the respect of SEC fans. For example, even after Boise State traveled to Atlanta last year and dismantled eventual SEC East champion Georgia in what was a virtual home game for the Bulldogs, most of the football fans down here still called them frauds unworthy of a top 10 ranking.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    Originally posted by kuha
    I don't get your point. Most of EVERYTHING is "over the heads" of most people (including me). I was simply pointing out that Brubeck, or any other entry point in this genre, can--and often does--lead to all sorts of discoveries. There's nothing negative or off-putting about that.
    My point was that most of the people who try Dave Brubeck (marijuana) don't end up on Cecil Taylor (heroin) and Ornette Coleman (LSD) which is what I thought you were implying. I wasn't saying that there's something wrong with folks who don't advance to the more esoteric forms of jazz. No one has an obligation to listen to music that doesn't sound good, and "good" is in the ears of the beholder.

    Leave a comment:


  • kuha
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    [quote=jazzcyclist][quote=kuha][quote=bad hammy][quote="Per Andersen":4s9l9zpc]Take 5 really turned me into a Jazz fan and Brubeck has been one my top 2 favorites ever since, along with Miles Davis.[/quote]
    Brubeck was the gateway drug for a lot of folks who became jazz fans in his wake.[/quote]

    Exactly. The first step to Miles, Coltrane, and all those "classics" as well as toward an even more challenging realm: [b]Ornette Coleman, Cecil Taylor[/b], etc.[/quote]
    I'm guessing that Coleman and Taylor are over the heads of most of the folks on this board as well as post-1965 Coltrane. That music was as cerebral as Brubeck's music was visceral.

    EDIT: For those of you who are unfamiliar with this genre, check out the title track from [u]Song X[/u], Ornette Coleman's critically acclaimed 1986 collaboration with Pat Metheny.

    [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d66Ytt2g7ns"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d66Ytt2g7ns[/url][/quote:4s9l9zpc]

    I don't get your point. Most of EVERYTHING is "over the heads" of most people (including me). I was simply pointing out that Brubeck, or any other entry point in this genre, can--and often does--lead to all sorts of discoveries. There's nothing negative or off-putting about that.

    Leave a comment:


  • preston
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    Originally posted by jazzcyclist
    Originally posted by preston
    The worst snobs that I've come across of any genre (art, sport, $$, music, class, etc) in my life were jazz snobs. No other group comes close and this thread only solidifies that observation.
    While I will concede that jazz has its share of snobs, I think they have a long way to go to catch up with political snobs - does "47%" ring a bell? And as someone who lives right in the heart of SEC country, and arguably the most fertile breeding grounds for jazz musicians in the nation, SEC football snobs irk me a helluva lot more than jazz snobs.
    Jazz, I hear you and I'm one of those SEC snobs, but SEC fans don't come close. Matter of fact, jazz snobs that I know readily admit that they're snobs and snootily air their superiority (a good friend is a jazz pianist and he laughs every time I say it because he BELIEVES jazz people are just better. Smarter. Classier. You name it...better! :lol: ). I think of Miles' stage presence or Marsalis' arrogance or even a friends DISMISSAL of bands and performers not worthy of who HE considered jazzmen and its unbelievably staggering how arrogant jazz snobs are. And, I use it as a compliment.

    Jazz, you're a jazz snob (as is every other jazz person I know). Accept it. Brubeck would :wink:

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    Originally posted by preston
    The worst snobs that I've come across of any genre (art, sport, $$, music, class, etc) in my life were jazz snobs. No other group comes close and this thread only solidifies that observation.
    While I will concede that jazz has its share of snobs, I think they have a long way to go to catch up with political snobs - does "47%" ring a bell? And as someone who lives right in the heart of SEC country, and arguably the most fertile breeding grounds for jazz musicians in the nation, SEC football snobs irk me a helluva lot more than jazz snobs.

    Leave a comment:


  • preston
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    The worst snobs that I've come across of any genre (art, sport, $$, music, class, etc) in my life were jazz snobs. No other group comes close and this thread only solidifies that observation.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzcyclist
    replied
    Re: RIP: Dave Brubeck

    [quote=kuha][quote=bad hammy][quote="Per Andersen":3tqe029u]Take 5 really turned me into a Jazz fan and Brubeck has been one my top 2 favorites ever since, along with Miles Davis.[/quote]
    Brubeck was the gateway drug for a lot of folks who became jazz fans in his wake.[/quote]

    Exactly. The first step to Miles, Coltrane, and all those "classics" as well as toward an even more challenging realm: [b]Ornette Coleman, Cecil Taylor[/b], etc.[/quote:3tqe029u]
    I'm guessing that Coleman and Taylor are over the heads of most of the folks on this board as well as post-1965 Coltrane. That music was as cerebral as Brubeck's music was visceral.

    EDIT: For those of you who are unfamiliar with this genre, check out the title track from [u]Song X[/u], Ornette Coleman's critically acclaimed 1986 collaboration with Pat Metheny.

    [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d66Ytt2g7ns"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d66Ytt2g7ns[/url]

    Leave a comment:

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