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  • Black question

    GH has informed the world that if Mr. T. terms a non-white person as "C*l*r*d" GH will give Mr. T. a life-time ban from this forum.

    That is perfectly OK by Mr. T. But Mr. T. finds the term "Non-White" even more discriminatory, disrespectful and obnoxious.

    May Mr. T. instead term a non-white person as "Black"? Is that correct in the US and Canada?

  • #2
    Re: Black question

    I am beginning to understand why you have been banned from all those places.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Black question

      Originally posted by Anthony Treacher
      GH has informed the world that if Mr. T. terms a non-white person as "C*l*r*d" GH will give Mr. T. a life-time ban from this forum.

      That is perfectly OK by Mr. T. But Mr. T. finds the term "Non-White" even more discriminatory, disrespectful and obnoxious.

      May Mr. T. instead term a non-white person as "Black"? Is that correct in the US and Canada?
      It would also be correct on the UK because it's not the 50's anymore :roll:
      i deserve extra credit

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Black question

        Originally posted by Pego
        I am beginning to understand why you have been banned from all those places.
        and this place.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Black question

          If I somehow gave Mr. Treacher the idea in the locked thread that he should correctly refer to blacks or people of African descent as "non-whites", I apologize to him. Obviously that suggests inequality also. I used a shortened form of "people who are not white" to try to explain to him that it was generally considered offensive in the USA to refer to people who are not white as "colored", and it was the same term that my Macbook's built-in Oxford dictionary used, of which a copied portion is below. My initial attempt to explain to him only mentioned "people of non-white descent"... Although Mr. Treacher seems to have misinterpreted much of what I wrote in my posts, as well as my reason for trying to explain it to him in the first place, I apologize if I wasn't clear as to why I used the term "non-white". or "non-white descent"

          "2 (also Colored) wholly or partly of nonwhite descent (now considered offensive in the US).
          (also Coloured) South African used as an ethnic label for people of mixed ethnic origin, including African slave, Malay, Chinese, and white.
          dated or offensive relating to people who are wholly or partly of nonwhite descent:
          -a colored club"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Black question

            Originally posted by Blues
            If I somehow gave Mr. Treacher the idea in the locked thread that he should correctly refer to blacks or people of African descent as "non-whites", I apologize to him. Obviously that suggests inequality also. I used a shortened form of "people who are not white" to try to explain to him that it was generally considered offensive in the USA to refer to people who are not white as "colored", and it was the same term that my Macbook's built-in Oxford dictionary used, of which a copied portion is below. My initial attempt to explain to him only mentioned "people of non-white descent"... Although Mr. Treacher seems to have misinterpreted much of what I wrote in my posts, as well as my reason for trying to explain it to him in the first place, I apologize if I wasn't clear as to why I used the term "non-white". or "non-white descent"

            "2 (also Colored) wholly or partly of nonwhite descent (now considered offensive in the US).
            (also Coloured) South African used as an ethnic label for people of mixed ethnic origin, including African slave, Malay, Chinese, and white.
            dated or offensive relating to people who are wholly or partly of nonwhite descent:
            -a colored club"
            I can assure you that your mea culpa over Mr Treacher's ban is wholly undeserved.
            "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
            by Thomas Henry Huxley

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Black question

              Originally posted by Blues
              If I somehow gave Mr. Treacher the idea in the locked thread that he should correctly refer to blacks or people of African descent as "non-whites", I apologize to him. Obviously that suggests inequality also. I used a shortened form of "people who are not white" to try to explain to him that it was generally considered offensive in the USA to refer to people who are not white as "colored", and it was the same term that my Macbook's built-in Oxford dictionary used, of which a copied portion is below. My initial attempt to explain to him only mentioned "people of non-white descent"... Although Mr. Treacher seems to have misinterpreted much of what I wrote in my posts, as well as my reason for trying to explain it to him in the first place, I apologize if I wasn't clear as to why I used the term "non-white". or "non-white descent"

              "2 (also Colored) wholly or partly of nonwhite descent (now considered offensive in the US).
              (also Coloured) South African used as an ethnic label for people of mixed ethnic origin, including African slave, Malay, Chinese, and white.
              dated or offensive relating to people who are wholly or partly of nonwhite descent:
              -a colored club"
              I thought you explained yourself succinctly more than once to the poster who seemed to be attempting to press the limits of what he could say or question before getting banned.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Black question

                Not trying to start anything here, just asking a straighforward question...

                Growing up in the NY area in the 50's, the word of choice for African Americans was "Negro."

                This word seemed to die a total death when " Black" came into favor.

                So is the word " Negro" more/less out of favor than " Colored "? You never hear either one any more.. and that's just fine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Black question

                  Originally posted by dukehjsteve
                  Not trying to start anything here, just asking a straighforward question...

                  Growing up in the NY area in the 50's, the word of choice for African Americans was "Negro."

                  This word seemed to die a total death when " Black" came into favor.

                  So is the word " Negro" more/less out of favor than " Colored "? You never hear either one any more.. and that's just fine.
                  Times change, as does language and neither are now acceptable for whatever reason Why would anyone insist on using language that they have been told is considered offensive ?

                  It is okay to do it inadvertently but if you're told why persist ?
                  i deserve extra credit

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Black question

                    Originally posted by mump boy
                    Times change, as does language
                    That is a point sometimes missed. The original lyrics of Stephen Foster ("Swanee River"), W. S. Gilbert ("I've Got A Little List"), and Oscar Hammerstein ("Ol' Man River") were accepted in their time. (The most recent of those songs was written in 1927.) These lyrics could never be written today. The fact that "colored" was once appropriate does not make it so today. Standards change, and none of us should use language that is offensive today, even if that language was once commonplace.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Black question

                      Originally posted by tandfman
                      Standards change, and none of us should use language that is offensive today, even if that language was once commonplace.
                      If you want an 'interesting' challenge, try teaching Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, which uses the n-word to brilliant 'effect'. Clemens knew exactly what he was doing in 1876, when he began it (it took 8 years to finish, as he kept abandoning it!). Although the novel is set in the antebellum South of the 1840s, where the word had little baggage attached to it (given the prevailing mores of plantation life), by the 1870s the word had already begun its deep slide into darkness. The misanthropic Clemens abhorred the residual racism he saw everywhere and sought to embarrass his readers into recognizing the casual acceptance of the word (representing the sentiment that they were NOT racist, when they so obviously were) and the attitudes towards the ex-slaves. The day we begin the novel, we spend the hour discussing the term and its evolution (which is continuIng today, 2012). It's a great lesson in the power of words, bad and good.
                      Colored, Negro, Black, African-American, and all the concomitant slurs . . . they are all symbols of our struggle with our fellow man and and our all-too-often failure to understand others' perspectives.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Black question

                        Originally posted by dukehjsteve
                        Not trying to start anything here, just asking a straighforward question...

                        Growing up in the NY area in the 50's, the word of choice for African Americans was "Negro."

                        This word seemed to die a total death when " Black" came into favor.

                        So is the word " Negro" more/less out of favor than " Colored "? You never hear either one any more.. and that's just fine.
                        Like dukehjsteve, I have lived through the transition of acceptable names for Negros, which, I believe, is the correct racial designation. I am willing to abide by the contemporary approved term but would like to raise the following points/questions.

                        African-American, imo, is an inaccurate attempt to be unnecessarily PC. Few American "blacks" are actually from Africa or have even been to Africa, not all black Americans come from Africa, all Africans are not black and not all blacks are Negros.
                        A South African emigre of Dutch ancestry to America would be an African American.

                        I am American Indian. To me and every Indian I know, Native American is a strained attempt to placate a minority when none is needed. Understandably, we do not like being portrayed as chracteristically drunken, shiftless savages; although, just as in any race, many fit that profile. In my youth in the 1930s, that perception was prevalent and many Indians hid their heritage. Now "everyone" wants to be an Indian.

                        We have previously discussed here the trend to selectively abolish all things Indian as mascots of sports teams. I believe this demand comes mostly from PC fearing non-Indians. Many schools have defied the clamor, interpreting their Indian related mascot/themes as a statement of warrior pride and perseverance. The Florida State Seminoles come to mind. The Appaloosa and flaming spear are among the best mascots in sports.

                        And, the Cleveland Indians and Wasington Redskins are still with us.

                        There are many regular posters on this forum who have identified themselves as of Negro ancestry. I am not aware there is any discrimination against them or that they have ever been disrespected here because of their race.

                        I have been PM'ed by some inquiring as to whether I have ever suffered discrimination because of my ancestry. My answer is, no, but I understand and sympathize that they have a more difficult situation.
                        It would be informative to the forum if we could hear from them if their objection is to the word Negro or to the admittedly derogatory "n-word". Do they really favor the ambiguous term African-American?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Black question

                          I'm from the UK where while we have racism we don't have the baggage that a history of slavery brings with it, things are slightly different here

                          I've always thought African American was a rather ridiculous term for all the reasons you've stated above, why not call white people european americans ? African american is just another way of making black people 'the other' as if they are not really americans at all !! I think black is probably the simplest term to use

                          I'm of mixed race and in some instances resent being called black (for simplicity it's easier to go along with it) but for all of my childhood i was quite happily labelled (and labelled myself) as half caste, it is only when the true meaning (half pure !!) became apparent that mixed race took over

                          According to last years census 'mixed race' is the fastest growing demographic in the country with Jessica Ennis the poster girl

                          While i'm obviously very happy with this it does come across, that (as for centuries) it's celebrated as the acceptable face of black people on the UK. I'll be happier when when Perri becomes the face of modern britain (obviously i understand this is not a great comparison achievement wise but you get my drift) which may be a long way off no matter how much she ever wins.
                          i deserve extra credit

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Black question

                            Originally posted by Marlow
                            Colored, Negro, Black, African-American, and all the concomitant slurs . . . they are all symbols of our struggle with our fellow man and and our all-too-often failure to understand others' perspectives.
                            For some, perhaps. Most of the time it is no more than naked racism. I don't buy "inadverent" slurs. They are either intentional or a "Freudian slip." Your above assessment is way too kind. Oh well, it's Christmas :wink: .
                            "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                            by Thomas Henry Huxley

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Black question

                              In recent years, I've started to hear more references to "people of color" (or, as the context may be, "men of color" or "women of color"). I've heard this from individuals who are in that category.

                              I think this has been discussed before here, a long time ago. And as I recall, I said then--and will say now--that for most of us who are considered "white" or "Caucasion" and who are not racists, the goal is always to use terms for others that are not going to offend anyone. It's not easy when people in a racial or ethnic group have different and changing preferences and very different sensitivies about being referred to in ways other than the one they prefer.

                              Comment

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