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  • #61
    Re: The 40 yard dash

    Originally posted by user4
    1) I dont buy the McTear 9.0 100yd as a HS junior story ... McTear was a rare talent but not that rare.
    Given the vagaries of hand-timing, his 9.0 as a junior is as real as any high school hand-time goes. There was supposedly FAT there too that had him in 9.30, but I don't think that's ever been confirmed. In any case, if you buy any HS hand-times, that was one 'real' too. He WAS that rare a talent, even though he never learned to sustain his top speed even to the 100m mark.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: The 40 yard dash

      Originally posted by Marlow
      Originally posted by user4
      1) I dont buy the McTear 9.0 100yd as a HS junior story ... McTear was a rare talent but not that rare.
      Given the vagaries of hand-timing, his 9.0 as a junior is as real as any high school hand-time goes. There was supposedly FAT there too that had him in 9.30, but I don't think that's ever been confirmed. In any case, if you buy any HS hand-times, that was one 'real' too. He WAS that rare a talent, even though he never learned to sustain his top speed even to the 100m mark.
      Totally agree, I seriously doubt McTear was at any time, ever in his career a hand timed 9.1 although with today's surfaces I think he could do just that. Sustaining top end speed is learned like being 7' tall is learned.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: The 40 yard dash

        Originally posted by user4
        Sustaining top end speed is learned like being 7' tall is learned.
        While there are indeed training methods and relaxation techniques that can improve one's 'speed endurance' (for the 100 that's the last 30m), I'll have to agree that much of it's in the DNA.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: The 40 yard dash

          Originally posted by user4
          Originally posted by Dixon
          McTear ...
          He ran that 9.0 as just a HS junior. I doubt he had ....sprinting...down to a science being that young. He was an amazing indoor sprinter....also. I do believe you can...fake it....in something as short as a 40. It is simply too short to seperate the talent level. That will happen after the 40...then...we see the legit sprinter seperate from that fast guy.

          And...all things being equal...Bullet Bob is still the fastest NFLer, hell, he was running faster on dirt long before Neon Deion and Bo Knows were running at FSU and Auburn. I also see Holliday, Ford and Demps faster. Then there are these other sub10.10 NFLers

          Alvis Whitted 10.07
          Sam Graddy 10.09
          Ron Brown 10.06
          Darrel Green 10.08

          I never count Jimmy Hines for obvious reasons.

          We all know and talk about Bo, Deion, Herschel as track/footballers but there have been a ton of them and many of them ran faster than those three, guys like 10.16 man James Trapp or 10.11 guy Curtis Dickey, how about Olympians James Jett and Michael Bates? Willie Gault was a 10.10 guy. Willie McGee a WR 9.1.
          1) I dont buy the McTear 9.0 100yd as a HS junior story ... McTear was a rare talent but not that rare.
          2) I agree that the great football 40 guys are very quick guys and that they would not get blown away by a 100m dash specialist to the 40 yard mark. Agree, after that mark is where the wheels fall off compared to a 100m specialist.

          3) From my perspective, Willie Gault was one of the most impressive dash men of his era. He would be a 9.8 dasher today as a specialist.

          4) Im amazed at how the SEC backs today do not seem to be at all chosen for foot speed. Look at the top backs in the SEC and you have some very durable, thick, athletic guys, definitely not 100m dash types. Nick Saban, Gus Malsahn, Les Miles and the rest cant all be wrong. The game requires a very very durable body. The 40yard dash and a few shuttle run drills are all the coach needs to assess the kind of speed that matters in the game.
          McTear also ran a 9.2 in the rounds that day and did beat Mike Roberson who would become a stud sprinter later on at FSU. I have no doubts he ran that 9.0. Keep in mind he was a great world record setting indoor sprinter and also ran a 10.13. He would win Cali State JC, he was world ranked. He was not one of those with some gaudy time then never backed it up.

          Not as high on Gault as you are.

          When it comes to running backs..quicks...mean more that speed. That burst, with some power. None of those recent Bama backs were speedsters, all more about burst and power. A 4.45-4.55 will work for a back if he has some power.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: The 40 yard dash

            Originally posted by Marlow
            Originally posted by user4
            1) I dont buy the McTear 9.0 100yd as a HS junior story ... McTear was a rare talent but not that rare.
            Given the vagaries of hand-timing, his 9.0 as a junior is as real as any high school hand-time goes. There was supposedly FAT there too that had him in 9.30, but I don't think that's ever been confirmed. In any case, if you buy any HS hand-times, that was one 'real' too. He WAS that rare a talent, even though he never learned to sustain his top speed even to the 100m mark.
            I did see him run a great 4x2 anchor leg coming from way back while at Cerritos JC. According to what I read back then he was a bit lazy so running the 200m...nay!

            I do agree he was that...rare...talent.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: The 40 yard dash

              Originally posted by user4
              Originally posted by Marlow
              Originally posted by user4
              1) I dont buy the McTear 9.0 100yd as a HS junior story ... McTear was a rare talent but not that rare.
              Given the vagaries of hand-timing, his 9.0 as a junior is as real as any high school hand-time goes. There was supposedly FAT there too that had him in 9.30, but I don't think that's ever been confirmed. In any case, if you buy any HS hand-times, that was one 'real' too. He WAS that rare a talent, even though he never learned to sustain his top speed even to the 100m mark.
              Totally agree, I seriously doubt McTear was at any time, ever in his career a hand timed 9.1 although with today's surfaces I think he could do just that. Sustaining top end speed is learned like being 7' tall is learned.
              He was a great 100 yard sprinter, I 'd bet on him running a 9.1. Not going to say he came on in the latter stages but he didn't fall apart either and was good enought. He'd also run a 10.28 as a junior.

              In 76 his senior year in HS he took second at our Olympic trials. He'd run a 10.16 in 76 and a 10.13 in 77. He was world ranked many times.

              Imagine if he'd entered USC or TCU right after HS.

              This is the USA 100m scene in 1975. McTear has the fastest 100 yarder and...

              1 Steve Riddick USA 10.05
              2 Steve Williams USA 10.08
              3 Houston McTear USA 10.28
              4 Reggie Jones USA 10.30
              5 Clancy Edwards USA 10.33 A
              6 William Collins USA 10.34
              6 Larry Brown USA 10.34 A
              8 Edward Preston USA 10.35
              9 Donald Merrick USA 10.37
              10 Charles Wells USA 10.42

              Williams was a 9.1 guy and Edwards, Jones, Preston, Merrick all would run a 9.2 yards.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: The 40 yard dash

                Originally posted by Dixon
                Williams was a 9.1 guy and Edwards, Jones, Preston, Merrick all would run a 9.2 yards.
                I guess we have to be careful here. I dont know the conditions or the surface on which Williams was timed in 9.1. Honestly I dont think Williams was worth a 9.2 on a cinder surface. I do think he had very few peers at 100m in the late 70s. Today he would be a 9.8 100m dasher for sure. Another one on that list was Clancy Edwards. I honestly dont know if the US has ever had two talents of that level in a span of 5 years. In short the 70s were a period where guys were running quite often on synthetic surfaces and that has to be worth at least a tenth (.1) maybe 2/10s in a hand timed 100yd.

                Again, Having watched McTear at 100m I dont believe he was a 9.1 hand timed 100yd guy. Of course HS timing is just that HS timing. He was a great 100yd dasher but he was not a legit 9.1 cinder man. At his best, on a synthetic track with a good 2m/s tail wind with the three stooges manning the watches, maybe he registers a hand timed 9.1... sure.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: The 40 yard dash

                  Originally posted by user4
                  Originally posted by Dixon
                  Williams was a 9.1 guy and Edwards, Jones, Preston, Merrick all would run a 9.2 yards.
                  I guess we have to be careful here. I dont know the conditions or the surface on which Williams was timed in 9.1. Honestly I dont think Williams was worth a 9.2 on a cinder surface. I do think he had very few peers at 100m in the late 70s. Today he would be a 9.8 100m dasher for sure. Another one on that list was Clancy Edwards. I honestly dont know if the US has ever had two talents of that level in a span of 5 years. In short the 70s were a period where guys were running quite often on synthetic surfaces and that has to be worth at least a tenth (.1) maybe 2/10s in a hand timed 100yd.

                  Again, Having watched McTear at 100m I dont believe he was a 9.1 hand timed 100yd guy. Of course HS timing is just that HS timing. He was a great 100yd dasher but he was not a legit 9.1 cinder man. At his best, on a synthetic track with a good 2m/s tail wind with the three stooges manning the watches, maybe he registers a hand timed 9.1... sure.
                  I was there in Fresno the night Williams ran his 9.1, he was still at San Diego State. He'd beat Don Quarrie and Herb Washington that night. That Fresno track saw the first 9.3 with Mel Patton and that's where Carlos ran his 9.1. Saw Jeff Williams run his 19.8 200m there also.

                  We can't get too carried away with all this...what surface, HS timing, SWAC timing, and all that. We saw legends back then running times that.."who?"...were running. To try and pick and chose what was legit and what wasn't....nay! Ever heard of Dallas Baptists Francis Baldwin a 9.2 guy? How about Oklahoma States Earl Harris another 9.2 ?

                  But if we must...

                  Willie McGee ran for Alcorn, he was a 9.1 world record holder and also ran some other fast times but he never did anything on the grand stage, that cannot be said about Houston McTear. He was world ranked numerous times, he was an Olympian (injuries kept him out). He was a state HS champ in a speed state like Florida, he was a state JC champ in a speed state like California. And if he'd ran at a four year University he would have been an NCAA champion. Now add all those indoor world records he broke or tied. He was the real deal and I have no problems seeing him running a 9.0. Now if he'd been another Willie McGee, ok now it would be..hmmm?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: The 40 yard dash

                    Originally posted by Dixon
                    ... he was an Olympian (injuries kept him out) ... .
                    By what logic does that make him an Olympian?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: The 40 yard dash

                      Originally posted by bambam
                      Originally posted by Dixon
                      ... he was an Olympian (injuries kept him out) ... .
                      By what logic does that make him an Olympian?
                      Metaphorically an Olympian, like an ancient Greek god! :wink:

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: The 40 yard dash

                        Originally posted by bambam
                        Originally posted by Dixon
                        ... he was an Olympian (injuries kept him out) ... .
                        By what logic does that make him an Olympian?
                        The same logic that made Stanley Floyd an Olympian.

                        paste

                        The 100 field includes Olympian Harvey Glance of Tyson's Track Club and Mark Witherspoon and 1980 Olympian Stanley Floyd, both of the ...

                        paste

                        McTear qualified for the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal in the 100 meters, but an achilles tendon injury suffered in the Olympic Trials forced him to withdraw from the Olympic field.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: The 40 yard dash

                          Originally posted by Dixon
                          Originally posted by bambam
                          Originally posted by Dixon
                          ... he was an Olympian (injuries kept him out) ... .
                          By what logic does that make him an Olympian?
                          The same logic that made Stanley Floyd an Olympian.

                          paste

                          The 100 field includes Olympian Harvey Glance of Tyson's Track Club and Mark Witherspoon and 1980 Olympian Stanley Floyd, both of the ...

                          paste

                          McTear qualified for the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal in the 100 meters, but an achilles tendon injury suffered in the Olympic Trials forced him to withdraw from the Olympic field.
                          Floyd is a different circumstance and I can handle that one. McTear never made it to Montreal. An Olympian is somebody who competes at the Olympics (with rare exceptions). Otherwise, everybody becomes an Olympian because they "were working towards qualifying for the Trials." We see so many examples of Triple-Os - obituary-only Olympians - that we should keep a file.

                          You compete at the Olympics, you're an Olympian. If not, sorry.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: The 40 yard dash

                            Originally posted by bambam
                            Originally posted by Dixon
                            Originally posted by bambam
                            Originally posted by Dixon
                            ... he was an Olympian (injuries kept him out) ... .
                            By what logic does that make him an Olympian?
                            The same logic that made Stanley Floyd an Olympian.

                            paste

                            The 100 field includes Olympian Harvey Glance of Tyson's Track Club and Mark Witherspoon and 1980 Olympian Stanley Floyd, both of the ...

                            paste

                            McTear qualified for the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal in the 100 meters, but an achilles tendon injury suffered in the Olympic Trials forced him to withdraw from the Olympic field.
                            Floyd is a different circumstance and I can handle that one. McTear never made it to Montreal. An Olympian is somebody who competes at the Olympics (with rare exceptions). Otherwise, everybody becomes an Olympian because they "were working towards qualifying for the Trials." We see so many examples of Triple-Os - obituary-only Olympians - that we should keep a file.

                            You compete at the Olympics, you're an Olympian. If not, sorry.
                            McTear made the Olympic team, just like Floyd did and just like George Massengale did.


                            paste

                            1920--ANTWERP, BELGIUM

                            Sometimes you need luck to become an unsung hero. Allen Woodring made the U.S. team as an alternate in the 200 meters, but was rushed to the front when teammate George Massengale of Missouri had to withdraw after an attack of rheumatism.


                            Neither Floyd or Massengale ever actually ran in the Olympics. But like McTear they all made the team. If you make our Olympic team you are an Olympian.

                            So you don't consider Sam Stoller and Marty Glickman Olympians either, neither competed at the Olympics.

                            Comment

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