Another "semi legal" dilemma

[no one]

Texas is on the threshold of executing a man for murder. Gov Rick Perry is being asked by several groups to commute sentence, stay execution because the man is mentally ill (Schizophrenia) - documented over 30 yrs and hospitalizations x 15.

Execute ...
Stay ....
Commute ... (which requires board of pardons concurring)

Prosecutors are claiming he's faking it

[jeremyp]

The state is ignoring the SCOTUS by refusing to have him evaluated, even though his mental illness history is decades long. No-one "fakes" it that long. Will Perry show he's above politics or not?

[no one]

execution scheduled for tomorrow @ 6:00pm EST - time enough for the wheels to shift?

[Atticus]

A fMRI will show the schizophrenia in his brain. We don't need observational diagnoses any more. It's a real neurological aberration.

[no one]

So .... Atticus / others.... assume they've completed an MRI - and it's come back positive ... very positive. What you think should be the decision for this guy and / Perry. Down to less than 24 hrs

[Atticus]

So .... Atticus / others.... assume they've completed an MRI - and it's come back positive ... very positive. What you think should be the decision for this guy and / Perry. Down to less than 24 hrs

Of COURSE he should not be executed! He cannot, by definition, control his ideations. He is ill - we don't kill people for being ill (not the same as 'crazy'), do we?

[no one]

I hear ya ... this may (or may not) be a seminal moment for Texas. This issue has been percolating for years. Also begs the question on whether or not the profoundly mentally ill who have committed violent crimes belong in prison. This time tomorrow ... perhaps an answer one way or another.

[Blues]

A fMRI will show the schizophrenia in his brain. We don't need observational diagnoses any more. It's a real neurological aberration.

Will MRI provide a DEFINITIVE diagnosis though? This article is from last year so I don't know if it's still valid, but it seems to suggest that healthy individuals can have neurological structural changes as well. It's also thought to be a possibility that antipsychotic medications used in schizophrenic patients may cause some of the neurological structural changes over time. Pego's opinion would be great here.


2013 Apr 23;133(8):850-3. doi: 10.4045/tidsskr.12.1084.
Schizophrenia--what does structural MRI show?
[Article in English, Norwegian]
Haukvik UK1, Hartberg CB, Agartz I.
Author information

1K.G. Jebsen Centre for Psychosis Research, Institute of Clinical Medicine, University of Oslo, Norway. [email protected]
Abstract

METHOD:
This article is based on a search in PubMed on «schizophrenia MRI» and on the authors' own research and experience. We included structural MRI studies, carried out on humans, written in English. Here we present a selection of studies that we believe are representative of the field.
RESULTS:
In patients with schizophrenia, MR imaging shows a smaller total brain volume and enlarged ventricles. Specific subcortical regions are affected, with reduced hippocampal and thalamic volumes, and an increase in the volume of the globus pallidus. In the cortex can be seen changes in folding patterns and a reduction in cortical volume and thickness, most pronounced in the frontal and temporal lobes. ****These findings are at group level--there is a high degree of overlap between sick and healthy individuals, and the effect sizes are medium to small.****

Several of the changes are present at onset of the disorder; this supports the theory that schizophrenia may be related to abnormal neurodevelopment. Longitudinal anatomical changes are reported, but it is uncertain what these changes represent.
INTERPRETATION:
The research literature shows that schizophrenia has neuroanatomical correlates that can be seen at group level by studying MR images. ****Structural MRI cannot currently be used to identify schizophrenia at the level of the individual.****

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23612107

[Atticus]

whether or not the profoundly mentally ill who have committed violent crimes belong in prison.

They need to be in a secure facility that can 'treat' the disease (as much as it can be).

Will MRI provide a DEFINITIVE diagnosis though?

See this

http://scan.oxfordjournals.org/content/4/2/166/F2.expansion

A fMRI will show brain abnormalities which can confirm a behavioral diagnosis of schizophrenia. While I think it would be VERY difficult to fake it, the fMRI can confirm it.

[jeremyp]

So .... Atticus / others.... assume they've completed an MRI - and it's come back positive ... very positive. What you think should be the decision for this guy and / Perry. Down to less than 24 hrs

The Supreme Court has already ruled that mentally ill people should not be executed. End of story. If you're not sure, don't execute. End of story.

[Tuariki]

So, what happened? Did Perry stop it

[Blues]

So, what happened? Did Perry stop it

No, Perry didn't stop it, but the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals did.

"The U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals issued a stay of execution Wednesday morning "to allow us to fully consider the late arriving and complex legal questions at issue in this matter." The court said it will be setting a schedule for oral arguments soon."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/scott-panetti-appeals-court_n_6262502.html

[Atticus]

No, Perry didn't stop it,

Is that not completely in keeping with the man we met in the 2012 debates?