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Carnton Plantation, Confederate cemetery in Franklin, TN

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  • Carnton Plantation, Confederate cemetery in Franklin, TN

    We went to Nashville over the weekend and one of the things we did is visit Carnton. If you've never been, go. Disclaimer: As always, some of my facts may need verifying. This is how I remember what we heard during a tour of Carnton. This is an old antebellum home that was owned by the McGavock family. The brutal of Battle of Franklin took place on down Lewisburg Pike closer to town. But Carnton served as a hospital for the Confederates. There are blood stains everywhere. The battle was a five-hour blood bath fought in complete darkness. They couldn't see each other, so they didn't shoot much. It came down to bayonet, knives, hitting with rocks, strangling, biting -- whatever.

    After the Civil War (or as a friend of mine calls it, the "War to Prevent Southern Independence"), the Confederate dead didn't get to be buried in newly established national cemeteries, such as Chattanooga's, that are filled with yankees. The CSA was the enemy of the USA! They were looked at as scum. Sometimes they were dumped into mass graves. And many of the graves were too shallow. So there are many privately funded Confederate cemeteries around the South and midwest. One of those is at Carnton, where the McGavock family lovingly oversaw the internment of CSA soldiers, kept records, etc. Really incredible.

    Also, many times, if a building as significant as Carnton were important to the USA, it would be made into a national park. Or a state park. But if it were important only to the CSA, the USA said, no thanks. So Carnton is run by a foundation without any tax assistance. A pretty awesome undertaking. But it is beautiful. They have bought the adjoining former Franklin Golf Club and it is now a grassy field with historical infomational markers on it.

    One more thing. Ever notice at Chickamauga-Chattanooga Battlefield (Chick-Chatt, as we call it) and Lookout Mountain and Missionary Ridge you never see monuments with the names of Southern states? That's because the north won. But at Carnton and the cemetery there, you see monuments with the names of Southern states. Interesting to see monuments to Missouri and Kentucky. Those states never seceded, but they have stars on the Confederate battle flag.

    BTW, it is called Carnton from the word "cairn." A stack of stones to honor significant places, such as graves.




    Last edited by BillVol; 06-01-2016, 05:03 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by BillVol View Post
        "War to Prevent Southern Independence"
        or alternatively, "War to stop the destruction of the United States of America".

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        • #5
          Happy not to be paying taxes to honor separatist racists.

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          • #6
            Atticus, true. Another interesting thing we learned on the tour was about the great CSA general Patrick Cleburne (klay-bern). He was born in Ireland and became a naturalized American citizen and lived in Arkansas where he was a pharmacist. He was killed at the Battle of Franklin. Something he suggested was to allow slaves to fight for the South in exchange for their freedom after the war. He noted that black soldiers fought for the north and were great fighters throughout history. He also said that Great Britain and France would likely have recognized the CSA as a sovereign nation, which would have helped. His idea was shot down.
            Last edited by BillVol; 06-02-2016, 06:00 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by booond View Post
              Happy not to be paying taxes to honor separatist racists.
              Well, they were obviously separatists. But I think everybody was racist back then. Washington, Jefferson, etc., owned slaves. It's a complicated thing, right? Why did the South secede? I think we talked about this on another thread. Anyhow, very interesting place to visit.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BillVol View Post
                Why did the South secede?
                There were lots of reasons, but it boiled down to this [HistoryNet.com]:

                The U.S. elections of 1860 saw the new Republican Party, a sectional party with very little support in the South, win many seats in Congress. Its candidate, Abraham Lincoln, won the presidency. Republicans opposed the expansion of slavery into the territories, and many party members were abolitionists who wanted to see the "peculiar institution" ended everywhere in the United States. On Dec. 20, 1860, [S Carolina] approved an Ordinance of Secession, followed by a declaration of the causes leading to its decision and another document that concluded with an invitation to form "a Confederacy of Slaveholding States."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                  There were lots of reasons, but it boiled down to this [HistoryNet.com]:
                  Money more important than humanity. More things change the more they remain the same.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BillVol View Post
                    Well, they were obviously separatists. But I think everybody was racist back then. Washington, Jefferson, etc., owned slaves. It's a complicated thing, right?
                    There's no doubt that most northerners were racist back then which is why the military didn't integrate over until 80 years after the Civil War. The difference is that northerners could afford to be less hypocritical with regards to human right since the emancipation didn't affect them financially.

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                    • #11
                      Lets see... 2016-1865, 151 years and we are still debating the War Between the States, aka The Civil War. ??

                      An interesting post Bill V.. does not warrant the acrimony.

                      Anyone up to debating Wounded Knee and Little Washita?
                      Last edited by lonewolf; 06-01-2016, 07:42 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.


                        Interesting about the national cemetery here. There are German and other POWs buried there. Every year the German consulate in Atlanta lays a wreath there on German memorial day.

                        As for reasons for the war, a friend of mine says the bulk of the Federal budget was made up of money from tariffs generated at the ports of Charleston and New Orleans and the South saw little of this money.

                        Another friend of mine says that slavery was on the way out anyhow.

                        history.net is just one source.

                        As for what was in the hearts of the CSA soldiers or what their motivations were, I don't think you know, Atticus. I've read that Robert E. Lee hated slavery but signed on with the CSA out of loyalty to his home state. That's one example. And the belief that Lincoln was not a racist is a joke.

                        Like someone said, all of this boiled down to money.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                          Lets see... 2016-1865, 151 years and we are still debating the War Between the States, aka The Civil War. ??

                          An interesting post Bill V.. does not warrant the acrimony.

                          Anyone up to debating Wounded Knee and Little Washita?


                          "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BillVol View Post
                            As for what was in the hearts of the CSA soldiers or what their motivations were, I don't think you know, Atticus.
                            Not I.
                            Ken Burns, in his awesome serial documentary, interviewed plenty of experts and provided evidence that MOST Confederates fought for 'God and Country' [regionally defined as CSA] rather than any political ideology. The politicians did indeed fight it over money issues.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by booond View Post
                              https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana

                              "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
                              One of my favorite quotations, whoever said it in whatever context.

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