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  • "my school is better than yours" [split]

    A real college football city ought to look like a strong university; if it looks different than that then the carriage is before the horse. Alabama's academic reputation is in line with being on the wrong side of the carriage. A nephew was a high-level guy at a major southern tech company - he said that he would not interview from Alabama and some other SEC football heavyweights, not because they were big on football but because they were weak in students and preparing them, and he went to an SEC school.

    This reminds me of the comments made by the Hutchins the president of the University of Chicago. What I remember is that he said something like 'There are two ways to be know as a university -- great football teams and great academics; we are cutting football'. He also said that "whether four years of strenuous attention to football and fraternities is the best preparation for professional work has never been seriously investigated." and "I do not see the relationship between those highly industrialized activities on Saturday afternoon and higher learning in America." I think that Hutchins is a better guide than Saban and I hope almost everyone here agrees.
    Last edited by 26mi235; 10-30-2018, 03:34 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by 26mi235 View Post
    A real college football city ought to look like a strong university; if it looks different than that then the carriage is before the horse. Alabama's academic reputation is in line with being on the wrong side of the carriage. A nephew was a high-level guy at a major southern tech company - he said that he would not interview from Alabama and some other SEC football heavyweights, not because they were big on football but because they were weak in students and preparing them, and he went to an SEC school.

    This reminds me of the comments made by the Hutchins the president of the University of Chicago. What I remember is that he said something like 'There are two ways to be know as a university -- great football teams and great academics; we are cutting football'. He also said that "whether four years of strenuous attention to football and fraternities is the best preparation for professional work has never been seriously investigated." and "I do not see the relationship between those highly industrialized activities on Saturday afternoon and higher learning in America." I think that Hutchins is a better guide than Saban and I hope almost everyone here agrees.
    There are strong academic programs at almost any major state university.

    Alabama gets a lot more National Merit Finalists than Wisconsin does, because they're willing to spend money on them.

    They have a great accounting program at Tuscaloosa, and they also have a highly-ranked PR major. Just because they don't focus on tech doesn't mean they are not a solid university. It all depends on what major you pursue.

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    • #3
      I have some experience here. I went to Duke as an undergraduate, as everybody by now knows. I think we will agree, that's a pretty top academic school, sorta Ivy level without the designation, like Stanford, and Atticus will of course demur that we are not in their class. We'll agree to disagree on that.

      After playing pro golf, I had to go back to school to get into medical school, because I had never been a pre-med student - I went to Duke to become a professional golfer. For my pre-med studies, I went to school at a lesser state school (I won't name it), because it was near my in-laws and we lived with them that year. The comparison of the students to Duke was not close. It was like I was back in high school, comparatively.

      I tend to agree with that guy who would not interview students from Alabama, or schools of their ilk, no matter how good we might think their accounting program is. Its just not comparable to Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Rice, Tulane, Northwestern, or the Ivies, or the top state schools, such as Virginia, Michigan, Texas, or North Carolina (happy now, Jay?)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by bambam1729 View Post
        I have some experience here. I went to Duke . . . like Stanford, and Atticus will of course demur that we are not in their class. We'll agree to disagree on that.
        Say what?!
        I may kid around on something like that, but Duke certainly IS a preeminent academic institution (I might quibble on their overall athletic program ) !!
        When I get students who are trying to decide between Princeton and Duke, I say it's a toss-up. And both are far above Yale and Harvard overall because of the areas they are in. I have little good to say about downtown New Haven or Boston!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by bambam1729 View Post
          After playing pro golf, I had to go back to school to get into medical school, because I had never been a pre-med student - I went to Duke to become a professional golfer. For my pre-med studies, I went to school at a lesser state school (I won't name it), because it was near my in-laws and we lived with them that year. The comparison of the students to Duke was not close. It was like I was back in high school, comparatively.
          Was the difference the quality of the students or the quality of the teaching?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Atticus View Post
            When I get students who are trying to decide between Princeton and Duke, I say it's a toss-up. And both are far above Yale and Harvard overall because of the areas they are in. I have little good to say about downtown New Haven or Boston!
            You might want to re-think that. In fact, Harvard is nowhere near downtown Boston. It's in a very nice area in Cambridge.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by tandfman View Post
              You might want to re-think that. In fact, Harvard is nowhere near downtown Boston. It's in a very nice area in Cambridge.
              True, but I completely concur with Atticus on New Haven. What a pit. In 1972 I played in the New England Amateur at the Yale Golf Course and after playing a practice round and driving around looking for a hotel, I refused to stay there, and drove back up to Massachusetts and commuted each day.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by bambam1729 View Post
                True, but I completely concur with Atticus on New Haven. What a pit. In 1972 I played in the New England Amateur at the Yale Golf Course and after playing a practice round and driving around looking for a hotel, I refused to stay there, and drove back up to Massachusetts and commuted each day.
                Which worked out, because I won the tournament!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post
                  Was the difference the quality of the students or the quality of the teaching?
                  The students. I had no problems at all with the teaching. I suspect teaching at smaller universities is often as good as top schools. The professors at top schools are not chosen for teaching ability, but for their research. Ofttimes many of the best researchers are terrible teachers, and certainly rarely have any affinity for it.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                    Say what?!
                    I may kid around on something like that, but Duke certainly IS a preeminent academic institution (I might quibble on their overall athletic program ) !!
                    When I get students who are trying to decide between Princeton and Duke, I say it's a toss-up. And both are far above Yale and Harvard overall because of the areas they are in. I have little good to say about downtown New Haven or Boston!
                    Well, I appreciate that, Atticus, but Stanford is exceptionally high quality. Not sure Duke quite as highly considered.

                    On the other hand, although yours overall sports do outclass ours, you really don't want to play us in men's basketball (5 NC), men's lacrosse (4 NC), or women's golf (6 NC) - all in the last 30 years.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                      ...And both are far above Yale and Harvard overall because of the areas they are in. I have little good to say about downtown New Haven or Boston!
                      Boston has some dangerous spots but it is like most cites. It is the density and the congestion that make it a drag in my opinion.

                      New Haven is remarkable in that if you were to pick a location on the map that should be absolutely gorgeous, New Haven fits the bill. Coastal Connecticut, facing south with the gulf stream working wonders. Just goes to show that mother nature can not bail you out of decades of bad government.
                      Last edited by user4; 10-30-2018, 06:58 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Speaking of Boston ....Whitey Bulger was murdered today......when I taught in South Boston in the 80s he was still running the mob there.

                        https://mobile.twitter.com/BostonGlo...14563358625795

                        I loved living in Boston in the 80s....the distance racing scene was amazing....And Boston is a great city to get around.... Cambridge was easy to get to on the Red Line. Just a few minutes from downtown. Don't remember any dangerous spots.... like Chicago has. Certainly no part of town it was wise to avoid.
                        Last edited by Conor Dary; 10-30-2018, 06:26 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bambam1729 View Post
                          I tend to agree with that guy who would not interview students from Alabama, or schools of their ilk, no matter how good we might think their accounting program is. Its just not comparable to Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Rice, Tulane, Northwestern, or the Ivies, or the top state schools, such as Virginia, Michigan, Texas, or North Carolina (happy now, Jay?)
                          Yes, quite content now!

                          Funny, one of my best friends was way up in the IT hierarchy at VISA, chief of engineering for North America, in charge of all 30,000 IT geeks on the continent. Brilliant guy, comes from a computer/math background but can hold his own with any business dude. When he would interview someone for an IT sort of job, he cared very little for the parchment from Harvard or MIT or Stanford, finding those kids possessed of an excessive of sense of entitlement, sometimes amazingly so. They'd tell him about how they got their degree with honors from their big-shot school, then he'd ask them, so have you programmed in this, that and the other language? Do you understand and can you apply this and that mathematical analysis, this game theory, etc etc. He'd get these vacuous looks and...next contestant please! Usually he'd hire some 20-something who might have a community college degree but is a self-taught computer wizard.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DrJay View Post
                            Yes, quite content now!

                            Funny, one of my best friends was way up in the IT hierarchy at VISA, chief of engineering for North America, in charge of all 30,000 IT geeks on the continent. Brilliant guy, comes from a computer/math background but can hold his own with any business dude. When he would interview someone for an IT sort of job, he cared very little for the parchment from Harvard or MIT or Stanford, finding those kids possessed of an excessive of sense of entitlement, sometimes amazingly so. They'd tell him about how they got their degree with honors from their big-shot school, then he'd ask them, so have you programmed in this, that and the other language? Do you understand and can you apply this and that mathematical analysis, this game theory, etc etc. He'd get these vacuous looks and...next contestant please! Usually he'd hire some 20-something who might have a community college degree but is a self-taught computer wizard.
                            In technical fields, managers take on new hires for their skill sets. Science and technology are exceedingly egalitarian and for that reason I would say that to go to an Ivy league, or any high price tag university for a BS in a STEM field is just a financial mistake. Get your STEM BS from your local university.

                            Now if you are going to get a BA in business, finance law, well those are a whole different world all together, they are the least egalitarian and the value of the big name university pays off with a currency of membership in 20 fraternities. Get your degree from an Ivy league school or the Univ. or Alabama, dont skimp.
                            Last edited by user4; 10-30-2018, 07:04 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by user4 View Post
                              Boston has some dangerous spots but it is like most cites. It is the density and the congestion that make it a drag in my opinion.

                              New Haven is remarkable in that if you were to pick a location on the map that should be absolutely gorgeous, New Haven fits the bill. Coastal Connecticut, facing south with the gulf stream working wonders. Just goes to show that mother nature can not bail you out of decades of bad government.
                              I love Boston - but then again, I grew up just outside of it. Repeat - New Haven in a complete pit.

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