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CAS upholds IAAF testo rule [Swiss court says no re Semenya] [then yes, then no]

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  • Before being shut down - I think Niyonsaba is a supreme competitor and not that much more athletically gifted than the distance running women, if at all. Mboma on the other hand could compete as a national level male athlete in many nations, especially her own, could be a respectable college male athlete, is much more athletically gifted than any female-bodied person, and is uniquely talented among all DSD athletes.

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    • Originally posted by moreover View Post
      , me, a person who recorded and watched every Jeopardy game over the past several years with Alex hosting, did not make it to the first commercial with Amy I was so discomfited. There is nothing at all feminine about Amy from the male features to the male voice to the male gameplay.
      I didn't know she was trans until whenever it was recently revealed.....and continue not to care.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by moreover View Post
        Before being shut down - I think Niyonsaba is a supreme competitor and not that much more athletically gifted than the distance running women, if at all. Mboma on the other hand could compete as a national level male athlete in many nations, especially her own, could be a respectable college male athlete, is much more athletically gifted than any female-bodied person, and is uniquely talented among all DSD athletes.
        However, it is not about being athletically gifted or not athletically gifted.

        It is simply about someone born as a biological male cannot and will not ever be a female.

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        • Originally posted by Tuariki View Post
          However, it is not about being athletically gifted or not athletically gifted.

          It is simply about someone born as a biological male cannot and will not ever be a female.
          Yep, it is that simple. It does not matter which side of your brain dominates or how girly or boyish you feel, you can change your pronoun but you are stuck with the gender nature gave you.

          Comment


          • Re Mboma, I am still sceptical we have access to all the information. Her case - and that of Masinlingi's - was rushed through extremely quickly; it wasn't clear what testing had been done, and who had done it; the Namibian federation contradicted the WA announcement on their status and it was suggested that she didn't fall under the strict criteria of which Differences of Sexual Development WA had imposed on selected events. Added to that, some of her 400m times from last season are still allowed i.e. for some reason they are allowing her marks set before her DSD was formally 'uncovered', but not after, which make no sense whatsoever.
            Wiederganger
            Senior Member
            Last edited by Wiederganger; 01-10-2022, 09:31 AM.

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            • Originally posted by moreover View Post
              Before being shut down - I think Niyonsaba is a supreme competitor and not that much more athletically gifted than the distance running women, if at all. Mboma on the other hand could compete as a national level male athlete in many nations, especially her own, could be a respectable college male athlete, is much more athletically gifted than any female-bodied person, and is uniquely talented among all DSD athletes.
              Mboma's 48.54 ties with #91 for U20 American males in 2021, and many of those above #91 were 19 year old college freshmen. And it's very likely that the most of the top 100 have had more years of serious training than Mboma.

              Mboma eventually will run 20.5 if WA doesn't do something. Maybe they're waiting for the 200m record to broken before they take action, as a broken world record would provide good evidence for CAS. But if that is their strategy, they should write something into the world record rules to state that WA reserves the right to delay and deny ratification of world records set by DSD athletes if their event is later added to the restricted list. That clause needs to be in place before the record-breaking performance occurs.

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              • Originally posted by moreover View Post
                I was entertained by Atticus calling me out because I am probably making statements based on things I read 30-40 years ago. So in my effort to do a little research to see what I recollected, I was just entertained by this NY Times article from 1985. https://www.nytimes.com/1985/09/24/s...-the-womb.html I have no idea what the current consensus is on left-right brainedness.
                That article is definitely on the right track (nothing about brain-size in it), but what modern neuroscience tells us is that we are still a long way from understanding how left-vs-right hemispheres and male-vs-female brain-structure and neurotransmitter patterns affect us - as individuals, collectively, and male/female.
                PET scans, VR technology, and AI research are rapidly filling in the blank areas.

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                • Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post

                  I didn't know she was trans until whenever it was recently revealed.....and continue not to care.
                  Amen to that. If he was so uncomfortable, he can always turn to another station.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

                    Mboma's 48.54 ties with #91 for U20 American males in 2021, and many of those above #91 were 19 year old college freshmen. And it's very likely that the most of the top 100 have had more years of serious training than Mboma.

                    Mboma eventually will run 20.5 if WA doesn't do something. Maybe they're waiting for the 200m record to broken before they take action, as a broken world record would provide good evidence for CAS. But if that is their strategy, they should write something into the world record rules to state that WA reserves the right to delay and deny ratification of world records set by DSD athletes if their event is later added to the restricted list. That clause needs to be in place before the record-breaking performance occurs.
                    The thing is, people were churning out predictions on Semenya and how she would obliterate the 800m WR, and she never did. They made predictions that Seyni would run low 21 seconds after she was forced to change events & ran 22.5 in her first season....but she has been stuck at 22.5.

                    Maybe Mboma can get down to 21.5, but 20.5, really? I'm assuming you're being sarcastic because there is no way she would.

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                    • Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

                      Maybe Mboma can get down to 21.5, but 20.5, really? I'm assuming you're being sarcastic because there is no way she would.
                      Agreed. What 19 year old guy who's outstanding in his group drops another 1.3 seconds from his 200 time? 🤣

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                      • Originally posted by KevinR View Post

                        Amen to that. If he was so uncomfortable, he can always turn to another station.
                        Interesting. I mean that non rhetorically. I noticed it instantly.

                        I wonder if "I never even noticed" is a modern version of the also well-meaning "I don't see color?"

                        Or it might be as simple as different people have different pattern recognition levels. 🤷‍♂️ This came up with the 2021 DSD ladies. Some couldn't tell, and others could tell with a glance.
                        You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

                          The thing is, people were churning out predictions on Semenya and how she would obliterate the 800m WR, and she never did. They made predictions that Seyni would run low 21 seconds after she was forced to change events & ran 22.5 in her first season....but she has been stuck at 22.5.
                          Semenya was holding back most of the time, and Seyni hasn't had a full season of the 200m yet. In 2019 Seyni switched to the 200m on short notice, and in 2021 jumped back into the 200m on short notice after downtime to due incorrectly perceived ineligibility.

                          Maybe Mboma can get down to 21.5, but 20.5, really? I'm assuming you're being sarcastic because there is no way she would.
                          I don't mean this year or next year. In 5 to 10 years Mboma can reach 20.5 if allowed to compete in the women's 200m without restriction.

                          If you saw an 18-year-old schoolboy run 48.54 and 21.78 after just one year of serious training, of which barely 4 months of it was in the 200m, you would think 20.5 is a realistic future lifetime best. Mboma is faster than most of last year's 18-year-old American schoolboys who are now in their freshman year on an NCAA Division I team.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
                            If you saw an 18-year-old schoolboy run 48.54 and 21.78 after just one year of serious training, of which barely 4 months of it was in the 200m, you would think 20.5 is a realistic future lifetime best. Mboma is faster than most of last year's 18-year-old American schoolboys who are now in their freshman year on an NCAA Division I team.
                            Disagree. A 21.78 by an 18-year-old high school boy in no way makes me think 20.5 is a reasonable projection.

                            I also have a quibble with the second statement.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

                              If you saw an 18-year-old schoolboy run 48.54 and 21.78 after just one year of serious training, of which barely 4 months of it was in the 200m, you would think 20.5 is a realistic future lifetime best. Mboma is faster than most of last year's 18-year-old American schoolboys who are now in their freshman year on an NCAA Division I team.
                              Look out 18.7, here comes Erriyon Knighton.


                              After 1 year of serious training -

                              "ran the second fastest time over 200 meters for an under-18 athlete in world history, clocking 20.33 seconds in the final at the 2020 USA Track & Field Junior Olympics in Satellite Beach, Florida.[2]"

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erriyon_Knighton

                              https://www.worldathletics.org/athle...ghton-14897541
                              1.609
                              Senior Member
                              Last edited by 1.609; 01-10-2022, 05:51 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by gm View Post

                                Disagree. A 21.78 by an 18-year-old high school boy in no way makes me think 20.5 is a reasonable projection.
                                Not just 21.78, but 21.78 after one year of serious track training.

                                Most 18-year-old schoolboys running sub-22 have 4 to 10 years of training under their belt.

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