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Transgender Athletes Dominating High School and College Sports

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  • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
    That doesn't help intersex, for whom an argument can easily be made that some are born looking very much female, but with internal testes that manufacture testosterone.
    It all comes down to t-levels, so that's where the demarcation should exist.
    Maybe not but the topic of this thread is transgenders, and this nomenclature would certainly solve that problem.

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    • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
      That doesn't help intersex, for whom an argument can easily be made that some are born looking very much female, but with internal testes that manufacture testosterone.
      It all comes down to t-levels, so that's where the demarcation should exist.
      The answer is “Transgender MTF athletes LIKELY retain some degree of biological advantage even after lowering testosterone levels”. Studies in transwomen pretty universally show that lean mass and strength decline by about 5% after 12 months of lowering testosterone. The initial typical advantage in mass and strength that biological males enjoy over females is between 20% and 100% (depending on task), and the composite outcome of mass and strength may be even greater (think kinetic energy = mass x velocity squared).

      In other words, the studies that exist for strength suggest that about one-tenth of the male-vs-female advantage is removed. That is nowhere close to what would ensure fairness. It means that “some” above means “most of”.

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      • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
        'Opportunity' . . . interesting word choice there. (!!!!)
        Some people will do anything Atticus to be a world champion

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        • What an ignorant article.

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          • Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post
            Maybe things would be simpler if the two sports categories were renamed from "boys/men" and "girls/women" to "unrestricted" and "born female"..
            Remove "female" because some trans and XY intersex people will argue that they're born female. Call the categories Unrestricted and low-T.

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            • Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
              [I]The answer is “Transgender MTF athletes LIKELY retain some degree of biological advantage even after lowering testosterone levels”.
              The legislation going on in various states mainly addresses the high school level, where lowering testosterone isn't required or tested. So in that context we don't even need to get into studies of what happens after T-levels are lowered; we only have to look at the obvious ways in which boys outperform girls.

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              • Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

                Remove "female" because some trans and XY intersex people will argue that they're born female. Call the categories Unrestricted and low-T.
                When I say "born female" I mean what's on their birth certificate though I realize this still doesn't solve the problem of intersex babies like Caster Semenya about whom the doctors may have been unsure of their sex at birth.

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                • Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                  What an ignorant article.
                  That's an understatement.

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                  • Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
                    The typical article by someone knowing little about sport.
                    I can't believe that ANYONE who thinks that MtoF trans should be allowed to compete as females has actually considered the ramifications of such a position to EVERY other female in sport.

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                    • In the past, most of the pro-trans-in-women's-sports advocates at least would acknowledge the advantages male bodies have, and then assert that the advantages are sufficiently mitigated via hormone treatments/surgery. While many would disagree over the degree and effectiveness of such mitigation, at least they agreed on the existence of advantages that should be mitigated one way or another.

                      But now they're just totally ignoring the advantages altogether, which is doing a disservice to their own cause. Their stance totally disregards the many girls and women who would be affected, and looks like they're seeking privilege and domination, not equal rights and fair treatment.

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                      • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                        I can't believe that ANYONE who thinks that MtoF trans should be allowed to compete as females has actually considered the ramifications of such a position to EVERY other female in sport.
                        The reason they do is writers like this probably don't know any top female international level athletes....

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                        • Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

                          Remove "female" because some trans and XY intersex people will argue that they're born female. Call the categories Unrestricted and low-T.
                          People who are both cis female AND low-T in the restricted category.
                          Everyone (including the above) in the unrestricted category. (No one allowed to compete in both divisions simultaneously.)

                          This may not be perfect, but it will cover all the "known" cases of anomaly. I don't think I have seen any intersex athletes with T-restriction dominating women's sports.
                          We need to come up with names for each category. (Restricted and unrestricted? Restricted and open?)

                          This may not satisfy certain anti-trans people. But they can go out and find the next wedge issue

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                          • South Dakota gov pushes changes to transgender sports ban

                            South Dakota Republican Gov. Kristi Noem on Friday suggested language changes in a bill to ban transgender girls and women from participating in girls’ or women’s sports leagues to limit the ban to high school and elementary schools, excluding college sports from the proposal.

                            https://www.yahoo.com/sports/south-d...233916072.html

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                            • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
                              South Dakota gov pushes changes to transgender sports ban

                              South Dakota Republican Gov. Kristi Noem on Friday suggested language changes in a bill to ban transgender girls and women from participating in girls’ or women’s sports leagues to limit the ban to high school and elementary schools, excluding college sports from the proposal.

                              https://www.yahoo.com/sports/south-d...233916072.html
                              Interesting logic of Governor Noem. They are not females in elementary school or high school but wave the magic wand and they become females in college. Same sort of logic ability methinks she uses to manage covid-19.

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                              • Originally posted by Tuariki View Post
                                Interesting logic of Governor Noem. They are not females in elementary school or high school but wave the magic wand and they become females in college. Same sort of logic ability methinks she uses to manage covid-19.
                                Probably because the NCAA already has rules.

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