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Transgender Athletes Dominating High School and College Sports

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  • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
    I see no point in kicking out eight year old Jazz Jennings from her youth soccer team. High school sports is a grey area because of the competitive nature of varsity sports at US high schools.
    I guess the competitive advantage of boys over girls isn't huge at age 8. But once pubescence starts kicking in (which it does before kids start HS), it's a different ballgame.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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    • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
      But I DO believe that the reason trans women and girls want to compete in women's and girls' sports is because they want to train and socialize with other women and girls, and not because they want to gain any competitive advantage by "posing" as female.
      So let them train and socialize with girls and women. That doesn't necessitate having them face off against girls and women in official competitions.

      (And forcing them to compete in the division of their birth sex is not a solution. Just ask Mack Beggs.)
      It is a valid solution in one direction but not the other. Anybody trans or not, male or female or intersex should be allowed to compete in boys/mens' sports. Beggs should have been allowed to wrestle the boys. But don't let boys go the other direction and wrestle the girls. Let athletes step up to the challenge of a more rigorous division if they want to, but not cross over into a less rigorous division than their age/weight/sex/etc. would indicate.
      Last edited by 18.99s; 03-31-2021, 09:57 PM.

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      • Originally posted by Powell View Post

        I guess the competitive advantage of boys over girls isn't huge at age 8. But once pubescence starts kicking in (which it does before kids start HS), it's a different ballgame.
        Oh yes...common in Illinois for boys and girls to play soccer together at that age...very entertaining....the strategy is for everyone to chase after the ball.

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        • Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post

          Oh yes...common in Illinois for boys and girls to play soccer together at that age
          I like the idea. The physical differences are not very significant at that age and I guess they can learn from each other. Generally speaking, boys are socialized more into being competitive, girls more into being cooperative. Both are useful qualities, in soccer and in life.
          Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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          • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
            So why do you think the women's sports exist?
            Silly me, I thought they were there to give women a chance to compete competitively, against other women. Apparently some folks now want that to be "compete against other women and testosterone-raised-and-fueled men who feel like they are women" . . .

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            • Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
              So let them train and socialize with girls and women. That doesn't necessitate having them face off against girls and women in official competitions.
              This can be a reasonable compromise. Other girls can benefit from having trans girls as practice partners. But it won't satisfy the people who are pushing the anti-trans agenda, because they cannot demonize the trans kids.

              Your idea of "open / unrestricted" category would not satisfy them, either.

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              • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
                This can be a reasonable compromise. Other girls can benefit from having trans girls as practice partners. But it won't satisfy the people who are pushing the anti-trans agenda, because they cannot demonize the trans kids
                That's a strawman argument, at least in the context of this discussion. I don't see anyone on here demonizing anyone, just arguing it wouldn't be a fair competition.
                Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                • Originally posted by Powell View Post

                  That's a strawman argument, at least in the context of this discussion. I don't see anyone on here demonizing anyone, just arguing it wouldn't be a fair competition.
                  I am not talking about the people on this board. I am talking about the people who are pushing the anti-trans laws in state legislatures. The vast majority of them are not interested in women's sports. They are just using cis girls to advance their agenda.

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                  • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
                    But it won't satisfy the people who are pushing the anti-trans agenda, because they cannot demonize the trans kids.
                    From my perspective the folks around here pushing against TGs in women's sports are pro-woman, not anti-TG. The fact that a lot of the current political anti-TG noise is from those who are demonizing TGs is like the broken clock that is right twice a day - it happens . . .


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                    • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
                      people who are pushing the anti-trans laws in state legislatures.
                      Semantics again. It's not anti-life; it's pro-choice. It's not anti-choice; it's pro-life . . .

                      There are few anti-trans factions among modern intelligent people. There are pro-female-fairness. I am all for trans-people to pursue their happiness, right up until they infringe on the rights of a very large group of people, and their pursuit of happiness. It has nothing to do with social consciousness; it has everything to do with athletic fairness.

                      I sincerely wish everyone in the LGBTQIA+ community all the happiness in the world, as they follow what they believe to be their true selves. But don't compete as a woman if you have a man's body.
                      Last edited by Atticus; 04-01-2021, 12:57 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
                        I DO believe that the reason trans women and girls want to compete in women's and girls' sports is because they want to train and socialize with other women and girls, and not because they want to gain any competitive advantage by "posing" as female.
                        I don't think most women play sports for that reason. As a matter of fact, I know and know of plenty of women in sports like track, basketball and tennis, who look forward to training or practicing with and against men' They may have female teammates that they enjoy socializing and hanging out with, but that's not the primary reason they're athletes.

                        Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
                        I also do not think the most important objective of youth sports is to provide competitive fairness to all participants.
                        And therein lies the problem. Most folks here feel that competitive fairness even at a young age is important.

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                        • This is one of those topics that if you have an innate conviction or agenda, whether inspired by ideological or personal reasons, you will not be swayed by argument.... or common sense. If you believe the selfish desires of a few trump fairness for many...........

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                          • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                            Semantics again. It's not anti-life; it's pro-choice. It's not anti-choice; it's pro-life . . .

                            There are few anti-trans factions among modern intelligent people. There are pro-female-fairness.
                            Then I have to say there are way too many "non-intelligent" people. I don't see how forcing trans men in the women's division is "pro-female fairness."

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                            • Originally posted by jazzcyclist View Post
                              I don't think most women play sports for that reason. As a matter of fact, I know and know of plenty of women in sports like track, basketball and tennis, who look forward to training or practicing with and against men' They may have female teammates that they enjoy socializing and hanging out with, but that's not the primary reason they're athletes.
                              Cis women do not have to be validated as women. They are already accepted as women. You are talking about a different group of people.

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                              • Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                                This is one of those topics that if you have an innate conviction or agenda, whether inspired by ideological or personal reasons, you will not be swayed by argument.... or common sense. If you believe the selfish desires of a few trump fairness for many...........
                                Unlike most people on this board, I have no conviction or agenda. I honestly don't know what the best solution to this problem is. My opinion has shifted back and forth, and will probably change multiple times. And I don't see how I can find a perfect solution to this problem.

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