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Transgender Athletes Dominating High School and College Sports

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  • Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post

    The amount of enragement doesn't fit the "problem" no matter how you look at it.
    Yeah, but when a trans runner beats 69 cis women like Eastwood did at the NCAA Regional, we all know that there is a serious threat to women's sports.

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    • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
      So these 176 athletes and coaches are "profoundly ignorant"? (The entire list at the end of the document.)
      Yes, they are profoundly ignorant for thinking that the minimal presence of transgender athletes in women's/girls' sports today will stay that way for the next 10 to 30 years if the activists get all the "inclusiveness" they want.

      But maybe it's time to give them what they want. Let anybody who is male from the neck down self-identify as female and compete in women's/girls' sports at any level as they please. Then let's see what they're saying after the trans athletes have swept podium after podium, dominated game after game, broken record after record, and women's sports revenue plummets like Oumuamua falling into a black hole (because who's going to pay to watch that crap going on?). Be careful what you wish for.

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      • Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
        Yes, they are profoundly ignorant for thinking that the minimal presence of transgender athletes in women's/girls' sports today will stay that way for the next 10 to 30 years if the activists get all the "inclusiveness" they want.

        But maybe it's time to give them what they want. Let anybody who is male from the neck down self-identify as female and compete in women's/girls' sports at any level as they please. Then let's see what they're saying after the trans athletes have swept podium after podium, dominated game after game, broken record after record, and women's sports revenue plummets like Oumuamua falling into a black hole (because who's going to pay to watch that crap going on?). Be careful what you wish for.
        Are "they" demanding to let anybody participate in women's sport solely based on self-declaration? Who are "they"? The trans activists, or the women who signed the amicus?

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        • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
          Yeah, but when a trans runner beats 69 cis women like Eastwood did at the NCAA Regional
          Um, one random example does not an argument make.

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          • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
            Um, one random example does not an argument make.
            At the moment, isn't it the only example?

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            • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
              Yeah, but when a trans runner beats 69 cis women like Eastwood did at the NCAA Regional, we all know that there is a serious threat to women's sports.
              You conveniently forgot about Telfer beating the entirety of the thousands of women across NCAA Division II to win the 400m hurdles.

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              • https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/202...anship-column/

                I assure you this reasoning is a guise for government overreach. The facts are, transgender women have already been competing without issue for years. Florida legislators haven’t even been able to find an example of a transgender athlete unfairly dominating over their competitors, and the number who are competing is small enough to allow sports organizations to self-regulate. In an interview with the ACLU, Dr. Joshua D. Safer affirms that “a person’s genetic make-up and internal and external reproductive anatomy are not useful indicators of athletic performance.” The vast majority of transgender athletes have the same athletic range as their competitors.

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                • I had actually forgotten about Cece Telfer

                  https://williamsrecord.com/241702/sp...n-in-the-ncaa/

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                  • Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post
                    Dr. Joshua D. Safer affirms that “a person’s genetic make-up and internal and external reproductive anatomy are not useful indicators of athletic performance.” The vast majority of transgender athletes have the same athletic range as their competitors.
                    Does the AMA know this guy is actually trying to practice medicine?

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                    • Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post
                      In an interview with the ACLU, Dr. Joshua D. Safer affirms that “a person’s genetic make-up and internal and external reproductive anatomy are not useful indicators of athletic performance.”
                      This is exactly the type of ignorance that I was talking about.

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                      • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                        Does the AMA know this guy is actually trying to practice medicine?
                        Trying to practice medicine? This guy is a clinical endocrinologist for decades. (There is a lengthy c.v. at the end of his court filing.)

                        So here is the gist of his argument.

                        "Genetic make-up and internal and external reproductive anatomy" have not been used as eligibility in elite competition for decades. (para. 43)

                        Trans girls who use puberty blocker from early age never go through typical male puberty and develop like people with CAIS. (para. 47-48)

                        Regarding those who have already gone through make puberty, higher red blood cell count and higher hemoglobin level are testosterone dependent. And there is no evidence that remaining physical characteristics of male puberty is an advantage without corresponding testosterone level and skeletal muscle. For example, larger bones without corresponding muscle mass and testosterone level would mean an athlete has to carry a larger body with less power. (para. 50-53)

                        The problem with his last point is that he is basing this on only one study which has only eight observations. (All of them are distance runners.) Furthermore, there is a new study released after this court briefing that partially contradicts with the conclusion of the cited study. (The later study has a larger number of samples.)

                        As for the second point, this is the study he is citing (which I haven't read.)

                        https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/39/5/803/5052770

                        If his claim is true, then there is a potential solution. But that involves requiring puberty blocker from an early age to be eligible to compete as a female.

                        Comment


                        • Florida transgender sports bill might have just died in the Florida Senate

                          https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-t...152000032.html

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                          • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
                            Trying to practice medicine? This guy is a clinical endocrinologist for decades.
                            I need simply remind you of what he said, and I quote,

                            “a person’s genetic make-up and internal and external reproductive anatomy are not useful indicators of athletic performance.”

                            Nothing could be further from the truth.

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                            • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post

                              And there is no evidence that remaining physical characteristics of male puberty is an advantage without corresponding testosterone level and skeletal muscle. For example, larger bones without corresponding muscle mass and testosterone level would mean an athlete has to carry a larger body with less power.
                              I'm no anatomist, but intuitively, males generally have a different skeletal structure, which is more conducive to athletic performance, such as greater shoulder width relative to hips. And they are also significantly taller on average, which is an advantage in most sports. No post-adolescence hormone therapy is going to change any of these things.
                              Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                              • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                                I need simply remind you of what he said, and I quote,

                                “a person’s genetic make-up and internal and external reproductive anatomy are not useful indicators of athletic performance.”

                                Nothing could be further from the truth.
                                Yeah, but having a well-informed opinion on athletic performance is not a requirement for being a clinical endocrinologist. He knows tons about his own expertise, but that does not make him an expert on everything medical.

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